On 07/09/2007, Alain Vanhentenryck <alain.vanhentenryck gmail com> wrote:

Reijer,

And of course All people interested in PSN format in ASCII and Unicode= .

What do you think about Bernhard's idea ?

Before going to ONE and ONLY shogi format we have to wait until

ASCII disappears and Unicode becomes the standard.

That is NOT for tomorrow.

But Bernhard.

If you would like to be The Moderator, and do ALL the work,

I am disposed to reread and play testing Your PSN format

(de facto the Standard).

I am ready to write little converting programs and to have

regular e-mails concerning errors and corrections.

I am disposed to spend four hours a week to help you.

Now you are not alone for PSN.

Considering THE INTERNATIONAL KIF format,

that's an other question. And I would like, at the first time=

to disconnect both projects.

Waiting for suggestions and replies especially Reijer and Bernard.

Alain A. E. Van hentenryck (Belgium).

Once the definitions done we could

convert all Unicode to ASCII, and in a later time, depending on

Bill Gates, using a Unique Standard KIF format.

On 01/09/2007, Bernhard C. M=E4rz < arcor de" target=3D"_blank">shogi4f= un arcor de > wrote:=20

Since I've read this= lines, I thought a lot of about it and in result I
have two things to s= ay:=20

1) Did we really need a standardization of WESTERN shogi???
PSN = was created a long time ago, where japan support for western windows
was= very bad, or even partly things impossible. So there was a need of
an ASCII-Format of Kifu notation.
But in the meantime (with UNICODE), it= shouldn't be a problem to use
japanese Kanji. (I speak about UNICDE= -FILES and not about japanese
programs - what's the state with using= Shogidokoro for western=20
windows???)
Furthermore I'm sure we all play with Kanji pieces a= nd didn't use
westernized symbols for playing, so we are all familar= with reading
japanese Kifu (still I didn't see the reason for doing= it, because there=20
should be programs reading the kifufiles and displaying the games).
=
Maybe one reason, that someone want to post game notation in newsgroups=
(or something similar) which are not able to use UNICODE. But in this= =20
case I would suggest to put the files somewhere for download and simple=
give the link in this newsgroup. Also maybe you will have a collection<= br>of games, where japanese persons played. There is no (at least no simple= =20
;-)  ) way to convert the Kanji of the playernames to roman w= riting.

Maybe one other reason could be, that PSN allows many games = in one
files, while other formats didn't support this.
But would = this really be enough, to create one new own format for the=20
WESTERN world?

I would suggest, better use ONE format for the WH= OLE world, japanese and
western world together!!!

To become more = into detail: my suggestion is, to use the KIF-Format and
when there is a= ny need for a feature there (maybe many games in one=20
file), speak with the programmer of "Kifu for windows" to imp= rove the
KIF-Format.

But still if someone give realy good rea= son for a western format, I
thought about the following:

2) WHO w= ill be able to make the standardization of the PSN format???=20
At first, I start thinking, if I like to do this. (I've done simila= r
things already and I believe, it's not sooooo much work, at least = much
less work than other things I like to do. :-)  )
But t= hen I remembered other "projects" (not about shogi) I'd start= ed.=20
Many persons told, that's a great idea, they like to help and final= ly I
was alone with it.

So about PSN, what would happen, if I mad= e the standardization, put the
whole format description in internet and = say, all must use it in this=20
way???
(Of course I didn't like to become a shogi-god, so when p= ersons in this
list like changes, I'm open for it.)
I believe, NO= THING will happen.
The reason it, that there must happen TWO things at t= he SAME time.=20

A person who write shogi software wouldn't like to take much ti= me and
work to make complete PSN support, because NOBODY use it (it'= s not USED
standard).
But this "new" PSN description can on= ly become standard, if man (at=20
least one famous) program supports it.

In result of this, in my = eyes, standardization and supporting by
programs must go hand in hand an= d so only a person who have written a
shogi program can implement the &q= uot;exact" PSN format and so make it known=20
around the world and sporn other programmers to implement it also.
<= br>
And I believe, Eric (with MacShogi) was the only one, who had mostinterest in this format in the last years, so why not make him to the=20
PSN-god and like HIS program use it, should become the standard.
But maybe better first let us speak about 1).  ;-)

Bernha= rd

Reijer Grimbergen wrote:
>
> OK. This seems to be= a recurring discussion, which is what I was a=20
> little afraid off. It is clear that having a specification file fo= r PSN
> notation would be very helpful, if only as a way to direct a = discussion
> that has been surfacing in 1997, 1998, 2002 and 2007 (th= is year for the=20
> second  time). It is very unfortunate that there is no r= eference point
> and that PSN notation seems to be growing without so= me sort of control.
>
> Problem is that even though I appreciat= e the importance of this, I have=20
> no time to do this. So I can only call upon some kind soul on this= list
> who has some time and an interest in standardization of Weste= rn shogi
> notation (a very important problem, I think) to step up an= d avoid that=20