From: "Bernhard C. März" arcor de> Date: 1 sep 2007 Subject: RE: Definition of PSN notation Since I've read this lines, I thought a lot of about it and in result I=20 have two things to say: 1) Did we really need a standardization of WESTERN shogi??? PSN was created a long time ago, where japan support for western windows= =20 was very bad, or even partly things impossible. So there was a need of=20 an ASCII-Format of Kifu notation. But in the meantime (with UNICODE), it shouldn't be a problem to use=20 japanese Kanji. (I speak about UNICDE-FILES and not about japanese=20 programs - what's the state with using Shogidokoro for western=20 windows???) Furthermore I'm sure we all play with Kanji pieces and didn't use=20 westernized symbols for playing, so we are all familar with reading=20 japanese Kifu (still I didn't see the reason for doing it, because there= =20 should be programs reading the kifufiles and displaying the games). Maybe one reason, that someone want to post game notation in newsgroups=20 (or something similar) which are not able to use UNICODE. But in this=20 case I would suggest to put the files somewhere for download and simple=20 give the link in this newsgroup. Also maybe you will have a collection=20 of games, where japanese persons played. There is no (at least no simple= =20 ;-) ) way to convert the Kanji of the playernames to roman writing. Maybe one other reason could be, that PSN allows many games in one=20 files, while other formats didn't support this. But would this really be enough, to create one new own format for the=20 WESTERN world? I would suggest, better use ONE format for the WHOLE world, japanese and= =20 western world together!!! To become more into detail: my suggestion is, to use the KIF-Format and=20 when there is any need for a feature there (maybe many games in one=20 file), speak with the programmer of "Kifu for windows" to improve the=20 KIF-Format. But still if someone give realy good reason for a western format, I=20 thought about the following: 2) WHO will be able to make the standardization of the PSN format??? At first, I start thinking, if I like to do this. (I've done similar=20 things already and I believe, it's not sooooo much work, at least much=20 less work than other things I like to do. :-) ) But then I remembered other "projects" (not about shogi) I'd started.=20 Many persons told, that's a great idea, they like to help and finally I=20 was alone with it. So about PSN, what would happen, if I made the standardization, put the=20 whole format description in internet and say, all must use it in this=20 way??? (Of course I didn't like to become a shogi-god, so when persons in this=20 list like changes, I'm open for it.) I believe, NOTHING will happen. The reason it, that there must happen TWO things at the SAME time. A person who write shogi software wouldn't like to take much time and=20 work to make complete PSN support, because NOBODY use it (it's not USED=20 standard). But this "new" PSN description can only become standard, if man (at=20 least one famous) program supports it. In result of this, in my eyes, standardization and supporting by=20 programs must go hand in hand and so only a person who have written a=20 shogi program can implement the "exact" PSN format and so make it known=20 around the world and sporn other programmers to implement it also. And I believe, Eric (with MacShogi) was the only one, who had most=20 interest in this format in the last years, so why not make him to the=20 PSN-god and like HIS program use it, should become the standard. But maybe better first let us speak about 1). ;-) Bernhard Reijer Grimbergen wrote: >=20 > OK. This seems to be a recurring discussion, which is what I was a=20 > little afraid off. It is clear that having a specification file for PSN= =20 > notation would be very helpful, if only as a way to direct a discussion= =20 > that has been surfacing in 1997, 1998, 2002 and 2007 (this year for the= =20 > second time). It is very unfortunate that there is no reference point= =20 > and that PSN notation seems to be growing without some sort of control. >=20 > Problem is that even though I appreciate the importance of this, I have= =20 > no time to do this. So I can only call upon some kind soul on this list= =20 > who has some time and an interest in standardization of Western shogi=20 > notation (a very important problem, I think) to step up and avoid that= =20 > someone (probably me ;-) ) starts this discussion again next year. >=20 > Reijer --^---------------------------------------------------------------- This email was sent to: = shogi-l shogi net EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a2i6Ys.= aCGIy8.= c2hvZ2kt Or send an email to: shogi-unsubscribe topica com For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: http://www.topica.com/?p=3DTEXFOOTER --^----------------------------------------------------------------