From: jtisdall c2i net Date: 22 mar 2007 Subject: Re: Watanabe's comments (2) Thanks very much for that, absolutely fascinating, and very open-minded.= =20 Both the remark about computers finding strange moves that expand the bound= aries of the game, and the comment that their endgames are not yet perfect = are very interesting. Looking back on how computer programs overtook the chess world it sounds li= ke they are closing the shogi gap remarkably quickly. It will be interestin= g to see if there is a longer period where things are more even due to the = differences in the games. jt ----- Original Message --------------- Subject: Re: Watanabe's comments (2) From: Richard Sams parkcity ne jp> Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 16:00:15 +0900 To: shogi topica com > >Akira Watanabe is very impressive. After winning his game against=20 >Bonanza under great pressure, I imagine he had to attend the inevitable= =20 >sponsor=92s party and answer a lot of questions from people not=20 >necessarily familiar with shogi. According to his blog, he got home at=20 >midnight. He must have been exhausted, but instead of going to bed he=20 >started writing his report on the game for his readers. At around 2.15=20 >a.m. I noticed that he had already posted the first part (Preparations=20 >for the Game). Since it was quite short, I decided to translate it,=20 >assuming he would write his report on the game after a good night=92s=20 >sleep. But when I finished my translation at around 3.00 a.m. I noticed= =20 >that he had already posted his game report! I=92ve just finished=20 >translating that (see below). Now I notice that he=92s at it again,=20 >answering questions from fans about the game. I=92m afraid I can=92t keep= =20 >up with this pace =85 > >Here=92s the URL for Watanabe=92s site: > >http://blog.goo.ne.jp/kishi-akira/ > >=A0Moves of the game: >Black: Bonanza >White: Akira Watanabe, Ryuo Titleholder >P-7f P-8d; P-6f P-3d; R-6h S-6b; K-4h P-5d; K-3h K-4b; K-2h K-3b; S-7b=20 >G6a-5b; L-1h S-5c; K-1i B-3c; S-6c K-2b; S-2h G-3b; S-5f S-4d; P-4f=20 >P-8e; B-7g G5b-4b; G-3i L-1b (Diagram); P-4e S-5c; S-4g K-1a; S-3f=20 >P-2d; P-2f S-2b; G6i-5h S-2c; G5h-4h P-1d; S3f-2g G-2b; G4h-3h G4b-3b;=20 >P-6e (Diagram) =85 Bx7g+; Nx7g G-4b; B*6f G4b-3b; B-7e B*4b; P-5f P-7d;= =20 >B-5g B-3c; B-4f R-8c; R-6g P-8f; Px8f Rx8f; Bx9a+ R-8i+; P-4d Sx4d;=20 >R-4g +Rx9i (Diagram); P-6d S-3e; P-3f L*4f; R-3g Sx2f; Sx2f L-4i+;=20 >Px6c+ +Lx3i; Gx3i P-2e; Sx2e P*2g; Rx2g P*2f; Rx2f G*1e (Diagram); P*2d= =20 >Gx2f; Px2c+ G3bx2c; P*2d P*2g; Px2c+ +Rx3i; +Px2b Bx2b; Sx3i G*2h; Sx2h= =20 >Px2h+; +Bx2h P*2g; +Bx2g Gx2g; S*3i S*3h; G*2h Gx2h; Sx2h P*2g Black=20 >Resigns > >=A0 > From Akira Watanabe=92s Blog > >March 22, 2007 > >Daiwa Securities Special Match Against Bonanza Part 2 =96 The Game > >I got up at 8.00a.m. and left for the venue with an NHK employee who=20 >had come to take photos of the event. We had the following conversation= =20 >in the car: > >NHK photographer: =93Bonanza has already been set up at the venue and=20 >lost a game to Matsuo.=94 > >Me: =93You=92re kidding! You mean that Matsuo?=94 > >=93Yes.=94 > >=93Matsuo 6-dan lost to Bonanza?=94 > >=93Oh no, sorry, it wasn=92t Matsuo =96 it was Matsumoto-san (amateur 4 or= 5=20 >dan) who=92s in charge of the Internet live transmission.=94 > >=93Ah, well that=92s not so surprising.=94 (Here I am feeling really nervo= us=20 >before the big game and he=92s trying to give me a heart attack!) > >=A0Matsumoto-san, who calls Bonanza =93my friend,=94 phoned me on the day= =20 >before the game: =93Hello. Just to let you know that Bonanza is already= =20 >at the venue and can apparently analyze many more moves ahead than=20 >before. (Sounding really pleased) Bonanza=92s rating is now 2800! Good=20 >luck!=94 > >Who is this guy supporting? > >By the way, shogi ratings are provided on the Shogi Club 24 Internet=20 >shogi dojo. The highest rating at the moment is 3084, so that means=20 >Bonanza is only 300 points below the top. This is no joke =96 I=92m=20 >beginning to get scared. > >We arrive at the venue. Judging from what people there say, it really=20 >seems true that today Bonanza is functioning very well and fast too. I=20 >was quite shocked. Returning to the back room, I try to relax but my=20 >heart is beating faster and I=92m already in slight panic mode. If I=20 >think about the coming game I=92ll only have negative thoughts so I spend= =20 >the remaining time watching TV. > >The game begins. As expected, Bonanza plays 4th file rook anaguma. > >=A0GAME DIAGRAM (after 30 =85 L-1b) > >Up to now everything has gone as expected. I looked at various ways of=20 >playing this position and came to the conclusion that this was the=20 >safest. Here Bonanza usually plays P-6e S-5c; Bx3c+ G3bx3c; B*7a. > >REFERENCE DIAGRAM > >After =85 R-7b, Black has to exchange the bishop for the silver on 5c and= =20 >White already has a winning position. This is what I had been expecting= =20 >but today Bonanza didn=92t play this way. Afterwards I asked the=20 >programmer, who said that Bonanza had looked at B*7a but stopped=20 >thinking at that point! > >Because it didn=92t play B*7a I felt =93there=92s something different abou= t=20 >Bonanza today.=94 > >GAME DIAGRAM (after 47. P-6e) > >P-6e seemed to be a surprise for many people, but having played Bonanza= =20 >many times, I was expecting it. This kind of move is generally=20 >considered bad, but in practice it=92s not so easy to punish. > >51. B*6f was a move I=92d never seen before in such a position, but it=20 >was actually quite good. It=92s the kind of move that shogi pros don=92t= =20 >consider, and you could even say that computers have contributed to=20 >improving the technical level of shogi in this way. I think computers=20 >will continue to show us new kinds of move like this and that this=20 >could lead to the discovery of new ideas and tesuji. > >GAME DAIGRAM (after 70 =85 *Rx9i) > >This is a key moment. Here Bonanza played 71. P-6d. When I saw this=20 >move, I said out loud =93What=92s this (what=92s this weak move)?=94 P-6d = cuts=20 >off Black=92s promoted bishop on 9a and even if he makes a tokin with=20 >Px6c+, it=92s a long way from my anaguma castle. Thinking =93Thanks very= =20 >much!=94, I sank into deep thought. > >Several minutes later I was thinking =93Maybe P-6d is a good move after= =20 >all.=94 If I play =85 Px6d, he takes my knight with *Bx8a and, compared to= =20 >taking the knight immediately in the diagram position, his attack is=20 >one move faster because he can bring the promoted bishop back with=20 >*Bx5d. So I can=92t take the pawn on 6d. If I can=92t take the pawn, I mus= t=20 >attack right away but I can=92t see any effective way of attacking. After= =20 >the move I played, =85 S-3e, I was expecting Px6c+, when I intended =85= =20 >P-2e with a clear advantage. I had invited this knowing very well that=20 >the computer program awards high points for making a tokin, but Bonanza= =20 >immediately played the best move, P-3f. > >Bonanza had chosen P-6d based on the thinking =93After P-6d the opponent= =20 >must attack. If so, the attack can be successfully repulsed.=94 Human=20 >players wouldn=92t consider P-6d because of their intuitive fear of=20 >blocking the promoted bishop=92s diagonal. > >Seeing these moves, I realized that I my opponent was much stronger=20 >than the Bonanza I had encountered up to then. > >GAME DIAGRAM (after 88 =85 G*1e) > >This was the point where the outcome was decided. Just when I had=20 >worked out that I would win after 89. P*2d, Bonanza actually played it. > >If my opponent were human, I=92d think =93he=92s probably missed *Rx3i=94 = but=20 >since I trust Bonanza=92s endgame ability I was now thinking =93*Rx3i ough= t=20 >to win, but maybe there=92s an amazing reply =85=94 > >In the same position you think differently depending on whether the=20 >opponent is human or a computer. > >In fact, it seems that Bonanza underestimated =85 *Rx3i. Computers miss= =20 >things too. I thought the computer=92s endgame was perfect, so I felt a= =20 >little relieved! > >After =85 G*5a, instead of P*2d, I had been afraid of the line L*2g Gx2f;= =20 >Lx2f P*2g; G*3h Px2h*; *Bx2h (Reference Diagram). > >REFERENCE DIAGRAM (up to 95. *Bx2h) > >To play this, the opponent has to think =93I=92m giving up a rook and my= =20 >silver will be taken by a pawn, but I=92ll be able to bring my promoted= =20 >bishop into the defense and my opponent has run out of pawns.=94 I=20 >figured that Bonanza wouldn=92t be capable of finding such a high-level= =20 >sequence. > >So P*2d was the losing move. Not surprisingly, the intuitive =93sense of= =20 >distance=94 from the king seems to have been hard for Bonanza. > >Still, I=92m glad I won. I=92m really relieved too. > >I had heard that computer programs will get stronger using=20 >high-performance hardware, but I didn=92t expect it to be as strong as=20 >this. With further advances in the hardware and improvements by the=20 >developers, they are going to get even stronger. I thought they still=20 >had quite a way to go, but now we have to recognize that they=92ve=20 >reached the point where they are getting to be a match for=20 >professionals. I think we can no longer avoid matches between computers= =20 >and shogi professionals. And next time it will attract even greater=20 >attention. > >For the past month, I=92ve been feeling quite a lot pressure as the big= =20 >day approached. Now at last I=92m free from that pressure, so I=92m going= =20 >to sleep very well .. zzzzz > >=A0 > >=A0 > >=A0 > > > > --^---------------------------------------------------------------- This email was sent to: = shogi-l shogi net EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a2i6Ys.= aB5TiY.= c2hvZ2kt Or send an email to: shogi-unsubscribe topica com For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: http://www.topica.com/?p=3DTEXFOOTER --^----------------------------------------------------------------