From: Adam Skalny shogi sk> Date: 17 mar 2007 Subject: RE: Bonanza vs Ryu-O Champion Hallo Mark, Larry and all, do You really think that such conspiration theories are true, Mark? :) Psychological value of Bonanzas slaughter by Watanabe RyuOh for pros is undeniable. But isn't it a bit childish? Maybe NSR wish to publicaly demonstrate difference in strength and thus help in development of better shogi playing programs. Advancements in CS is unstoppable, and unlike human minds computers simply have "no" limits. So time when computer beat up pro will come. THis raise (imho!) an interesting question: RuyOh tournament is open even to amateur players. What about computers? Are they allowed too? How will NSR react to possibility of computer become 42th ryuoh... As for upcomming match. Do you know any configuration details? Will it be some special hardware/bonanza version playing with Watanabe RyuOh? Or just regular "Thoshiba notebook" and "bonanza from web". Cheers, Adam Skalny Quoting Mark Schreiber hotmail com>: > > Larry, > Thanks for the ratings clarification. I have a theory on why this > match was arranged. > > I can't imagine the Bonanza programmer will want his program to be > clobbered. The Japan shogi association arranged this match. With all the > talk about how strong the computer will be some pros might be getting > scared. This match will give the weaker pros pointers on how to beat the > computer. The match is also to give the pros a boost of confidence. If > they are more confident then the Pros will play better against the > computer. It is also to show that shogi is so much harder than western > chess that it is in a different class then western chess. > > I think it will take about 20 years, 2027, when a computer can beat > the best shogi pro. So the pros have time before they need to worry. > Mark > > Larry Kaufman wrote: >> >> It seems strange to me too. Bonanza is roughly on a par with top level >> amateur players, but such players would probably only have a 5% chance >> at >> best against a pro titleholder. So unless Bonanza has been improved >> greatly, >> it's just a publicity stunt. >> Incidentally, Bonanza is considered to be on a par with Amateur 6 Dan >> players, not Pro 6 Dan players, so it's even more unreasonable than your >> >> question implies. >> By the way, the final score of the Rybka-Ehlvest pawn handicap chess >> match was 5.5-2.5 for Rybka (giving a pawn). >> >> Larry Kaufman >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mark Schreiber" hotmail com> >> To: topica com> >> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 12:56 PM >> Subject: Bonanza vs Ryu-O Champion >> >> >> > >> > Talking about handicap systems to level the playing field. If >> > Bonanza is maybe a 6 dan why is it playing a 9 dan? 9 dan Ryu-O Champion >> > Watanabe said, "I don't think I'll lose". Then he said, "A loss can >> > never be permitted". Does anyone have any doubt what will be the result? >> > Bonanza will be slaughter. Can we learn anything from this? I like to >> > see more computer vs man matches. But make them balanced. Shouldn't >> > Bonanza be playing a 6 or maybe 7 dan? >> > Mark >> > >> > Larry Kaufman wrote: >> >> By a curious twist of fate, just as computer shogi programs are >> >> reaching >> >> the level where they can compete with pros without a handicap (as >> >> planned for Bonanza shortly), in chess the opposite has just >> >> occurred. A >> >> match is now taking place in which computer chess program "Rybka" is >> >> giving a pawn handicap to a renowned grandmaster (Jaan Ehlvest) in >> >> an >> >> eight game match, and the computer is leading 3-0! >> >> You can either take this as evidence of the superiority of shogi >> >> over >> >> chess, or as a forecast of things to come in shogi. I think it's not >> >> so >> >> many years away that a shogi program will spot the Meijin a lance >> >> and >> >> defeat him. Few could have imagined this would happen in chess, but >> >> it >> >> has, and shogi will be next. >> >> >> >> Larry Kaufman, chess International Master and Shogi amateur 5 Dan. > > > > ----- End forwarded message ----- --^---------------------------------------------------------------- This email was sent to: shogi-l shogi net EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a2i6Ys.aB5TiY.c2hvZ2kt Or send an email to: shogi-unsubscribe topica com For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: http://www.topica.com/?p=TEXFOOTER --^----------------------------------------------------------------