From: Darren hotmail com> Date: 07 mar 2007 Subject: Re: A Comparison of Shogi, Chess, Xiangqi Hello Alain, Looks as though Doug has already answered your question, let me know if you need any more help. Darren (Australia) >From: Alain Vanhentenryck gmail com> >Reply-To: shogi topica com >To: shogi topica com >Subject: Re: A Comparison of Shogi, Chess, Xiangqi >Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 06:12:44 -0800 > >Hello Darren. > >I play chess and shogi, solving chess problems and tsume shogi's, >know the rules of Xaingqui and I can loose all my games in go, >but, >I never found a site on intenet with the OFFICIAL rules of >Korean Chess in English. I did even not found a board in Belgium. > >Is it possible that somebody send me a link to the official korean >chess rules ? > >Thank you very Much. > >Alain Vanhentenryck. >(Belgium) > > >On 06/03/07, Darren hotmail com> wrote: >> >> >>Hi Diceman, >> >>Nice article , I prety much agree with what you're saying. >>Shogi is my favourite game , I also like Xiangqui and Korean Chess, though >>unfortunatley , I've only played a handfull of games the latter. >> >>Check out this site for Makruk : ThaiGB it'd also got Shogi and XQ. >> >> >>Regrads, >> >>Darren >> >> >> >From: Diceman earthlink net> >> >Reply-To: shogi topica com >> >To: shogi topica com >> >Subject: Re: A Comparison of Shogi, Chess, Xiangqi >> >Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 18:16:40 -0500 (GMT-05 >> > >> > >> > >> >${top_html_ad} >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >As a proponent of shogi, xiangqi, and chess,as well asmyriad chess >> >variants, this topicbrought forth by Leung-san is one that never ceases >>to >> >fascinate me. After playingall three games for nearly two decades, I >> >still find eachone unique and enjoyable in its own right. While >>primarily >> >a chess player, mostly due to geography, I have always found shogi and >> >xiangqi to be just as playable and challenging. More importantly, they >> >seem to strengthen my chess abilities while lending an air of freshness >>not >> >normally found in other games, chess variants or not. >> > >> >For many years I've argued that shogi and xiangqi are not chess >>variants, >> >since chess is a "variant" itself. This brings me to the "family" vs. >> >variant argument: rather than being variants per se, shogi and xiangqi >> >aremore like chess "cousins." I refer to both games as members of "the >> >seven chesses"- seven games which were born from the same origin and >>have >> >all been widely played in some part of the world. These "chesses" >>include >> >shogi, xiangqi, chess, janggi (Korean chess), makruk (Thai chess), >>shatranj >> >(Persian chess), and chaturanga (Indian chess). While I must admit >> >thatthese last two games, shatranj and chaturanga, may deserve to be >> >excluded from the group of relevant chess family members, as they are no >> >longer played, I still like to keep them in the group, since they are >>the >> >historical link between chess in the West and the four "chesses" of the >>Far >> >East. And don't get me started on which game from the Middle East came >> >first! >> > >> >But perhaps out of all seven games, or five if you're just counting ones >> >played today, the three Leung-san brings up are the most relevant. Not >>to >> >discount makruk and janggi, but it seems that by far xiangqi, chess, and >> >shogi are the most widely played and well-known chess games, and for >>this >> >reason I play these three games by far more often than any other game >> >(including non-chess games like Risk and poker, which I also believe can >> >help your chess game as well, but maybe not quite as well as shogi and >> >xiangqi). I have played chess and shogi online, too, and thanks to a >> >recent email from Leung-san, I plan to play xiangqi online in the future >> >(if anyone knows of a makruk or janggi server, please do tell), sothere >> >are fortunately many opportunities to play all three for everyone. The >> >accessibility of the gamesmakes thisthread one which can continue >> >indefinitely, since everyone has a chance to try each one out. The >>thread >> >could be broadened in the future, too, since there are serversfor chess >> >variants as well (bughouse and crazyhouse being by far the most exciting >> >and relevant to shogi, but that's another thread!). >> > >> >Now I'd like to make some brief comments on Leung-san's email, and then >>see >> >what others' experiences have been like between the three games... >> > >> > >> > >> >-----Original Message----- >> > >> >There are 64 and 81 squares in chess and shogi boards and 90 grid points >>in >> >xiangqi board, such that xiangqi board is the largest whilst chessboard >>is >> >the smallest. >> > >> >If not for drops, shogi might move unbearably slowly. Chess, on the >>other >> >hand, features a relatively packed game from the onset, so that the >>opening >> >is more exciting than the other two games; however, this can lead to >>rapid >> >trades and a quicker path to theendgame. >> > >> >This difference in opening strategy, in my opinion, is due to the >> >difference in board density whereby xiangqi board is less densely >>occupied >> >and the strong pieces are less severely blocked and threatened by other >> >pieces and become more powerful. >> > >> >Xiangqi is probably the most balancedgame of the three. The board is >> >neither compact nor full of pieces, but the lack of density and open >>lines >> >allow the long-range pieces to get things going quickly. My experience >>has >> >been that trades happen less quickly in xiangqi than in chess, and >>because >> >more pieces are long-ranged than in shogi, the action gets going >>rapidly. >> >So in the opening, I find chess positions to be the most dangerous, then >> >xiangqi positions, and finally shogi ones (although you can pull off >> >relatively quick wins in all three). >> > >> >DRAW >> > >> >Due to the reusable pieces feature, shogi games almost never draw >> > >> >I don't care much for draws, so chess and xiangqi fall behind shogi in >>this >> >category. However, I must admit I do not remember ever drawing a xiangqi >> >game before! I'm sure this is because I've never played a "serious" >> >xiangqi game (i.e. tournament or rated game). >> > >> >In the later half of a shogi game, it is easy to say that a move is >>either >> >attacking or defending, but less often to say both or neither. Such >> >distinction is less obvious in xiangqi, and probably in chess as well. >> >Why? The short distant feature of shogi pieces ( e.g. pawn, gold, >>silver) >> >is a reason. Another is our desire to get not less than a half point. >> > >> >Great point. I don't see too many moves in shogi which can be described >>as >> >both offensive and defensive. Of course, this could be related to the >>fact >> >that defending in shogi is usually deemed equivalent to suicide! Not >>only >> >do drops make shogi less drawish, but it also makes defending both >> >unattractive and nearly impossible. >> > >> >The half point consideration sometimes makes deciding a move difficult. >> >And this may be further complicated by the performances of ourselves and >> >the other players in the other rounds, especially in Swiss and round >> >robin. But in shogi, we don't care that but simply fight, early or >>lately. >> > >> >I have always taken for granted the time that I have saved by not >>wasting >> >time and energy running away from the shogi board to go see if I need to >> >play for a win or a draw! >> > >> >KING'S SAFETY & CASTLING >> > >> >Perhaps the most "aesthetically pleasing" aspect of shogi is its >>free-form >> >castling. While a xiangqi king isalways a sitting duck and a chess king >> >only has two options for castling, there are innumerable ways to castle >>in >> >shogi. And in shogi the castlesfrequently have 2-4 stages involved, >> >making defense more flexible and attacking more complex - no one attack >> >method is always the most effective, since thedefender can adjust their >> >castle accordingly. >> > >> >CHECKMATE & ENDING >> > >> >Again, dropping captured pieces makes shogi unique, especially in mating >> >skills. >> > >> >To most xiangqi and chess players, shogi really has no endgame at all! >> > >> >And material advantage becomes less important in shogi endgames as >>speed, >> >king safety issues, etc. arise. >> > >> >It is a testament to how dynamic shogi is that there is no "point scale" >> >for the pieces. >> > >> >On the other hand, many chess endgames have been "solved" with >>established >> >winning or drawing procedures. >> > >> >Shogi openings and endgames are "less traveled roads" compared to chess. >> >If you view the game as an art, you might prefer shogi; if you see it as >>a >> >science, you might lean more toward chess (I can't say much about >>xiangqi, >> >since I've never even played a rated game). >> > >> >In xiangqi, the pieces are not as mobile as in chess, especially the >>king. >> > >> >Xiangqi games are made very interesting by the king's ability to "move >>like >> >a rook," at least in keeping the enemy king off of the same open file. >> >This gets amplified as the pieces come off the board, making xiangqi >> >endgames especially unique. >> > >> >In xiangqi endgames, we often make waiting moves to force our opponents >> >move from good to bad or from safe to danger positions. >> > >> >Now that you mention it, it does seem to me that "zugzwang" is used more >> >often and at an earlier stage than in chess. >> > >> >When applying in shogi, this is to nullify any possible good moves for >>your >> >opponent and prepare for a later fight. (In shogi, we must fight - >>sooner >> >or later.) >> > >> >In shogi you can't reallystop your opponent, just contain them. If you >> >ever did get to the point where you could use "zugzwang" in shogi, I >> >imagine the result would already be a foregone conclusion. >> > >> >OVERALL >> > >> >Maybe, being a xiangqi player, I am fortunate enough to see this early >>from >> >a very different perspective. When I started playing shogi with Japanese >> >people, I found their attacking and mating skills almost unbelievable. >> >Then I started practise tsumeshogi and hisshi (brinkmate) problems >> >intensely and still keep exercises today. In casual games, I often make >> >over aggressive moves, put myself into danger and sometimes lose >>terribly. >> >That is not to play unseriously or being over-prided, but a helpful way >>to >> >practise manage the unmanageable complications. >> > >> >This same process is how shogi turned me from a chess "A" player to an >> >expert. Shogi opens your eyes to a new way of playing. If you were >> >defensive as a chess or xiangqi player, you will by force become more >> >aggressive after taking up Japanese chess. >> > >> >I have no idea how well these words provide an alternate insight on >>shogi >> >for chess players. But to apply the skills from one game onto another is >> >amazing for me. Wish you like. >> > >> >It's definitely neat to see what a xiangqi-first player thinks about >> >shogi. I've only heard chess players tell me their stories in the past, >>so >> >this is an eye-opener for me. Thanks for sharing! >> > >> >Cheers, >> > >> >Doug Dysart >> > >> >P.S. If anyone would like to continue this thread off-list, you can join >>me >> >at http://groups.msn.com/xiangqi or http://groups.msn.com/shogi . >> > >> > >> >Sincerely, >> >Doug Dysart >> >Ohio Shogi Club founder${bottom_html_ad} >> > >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Join the millions of Australians using Live Search. Try live.com.au >> >>http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=740&referral=million&URL=http://live.com.au >> >> >> >> >> _________________________________________________________________ Advertisement: 50% off on Xbox 360, PS and Nintendo Wii titles! http://www.play-asia.com/SOap-23-83-4lab-71-bn-49-en-84-k-40-extended.html --^---------------------------------------------------------------- This email was sent to: shogi-l shogi net EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a2i6Ys.aB5TiY.c2hvZ2kt Or send an email to: shogi-unsubscribe topica com For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: http://www.topica.com/?p=TEXFOOTER --^----------------------------------------------------------------