From: bogin yahoo co jp> Date: 26 jun 2007 Subject: RE: RE: P. 143 of "Shogi for Beginners" --0-2110419791-1182847620=:25102 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think in most professional games that the furigoma occurs before the piec= es are set up. So, the person that is Sente will naturally take the Osho ( = non jade king.). We are talking about pros, so they will not take the wrong= piece by mistake. =20=20=20 In high level amateur games the same things probably happens. In regular = club games it probably depends on the players. If that kind of thing matter= s to them then they will change kings if they want. If they don't care then= they will just play as is. =20=20=20 This is not a big issue among most Japanese players so their is no need t= o have a hard and fast rule. It is more of a cultural or traditional thing = that a "shogi rules" thing. =20=20=20 Bill Gaudry Aquinaswannabe hotmail com wrote: =20=20 I see. Just out of curiosity: is there any set of official rules of=20 shogi that mention such trading of kings after Furigoma? Manabu Terao wrote: >=20 > As far as my experience concerned, I've never seen such trading > after Furigoma. >=20 > Manabu Terao=20 >=20 > Aquinaswannabe hotmail com wrote: >=20 > >=20 > > Just one last question to clear this up. I'm sorry if you find my=20 > > question unnecessarily speculative. > >=20 > > If the higher ranked player, who has taken the king general, is awarded= =20 > > sente through furigoma, do the two players then trade their kings? > >=20 > >=20 > > Manabu Terao wrote: > > >=20 > > > Hello shogi fans, > > >=20 > > > I think it's time JSA to do so in their website. So ask JSA. > > >=20 > > > Regards > > > Manabu Terao > > >=20 > > > Aquinaswannabe hotmail com wrote: > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > > I hope this isn't too much to ask for, but can you give me a transl= ation=20 > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > > of the relevant portion of the official rules? > > > >=20 > > > > Also, if you give me a link to an English version of the official r= ules=20 > > > > online, I'd deeply appreciate it, as I've never been able to find a= n=20 > > > > English version of the official rules online (though I've found ple= nty=20 > > > > of rules.) It would be nice to have such a translation, so that man= y=20 > > > > questions may be avoided. > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > > fabien.osmont teambridge ch wrote: > > > > > Yes, I think he's wrong. > > > > >=20 > > > > > A few monthes ago we had already a big discussion in the french f= orum=20 > > > > > with=20 > > > > > "beginners" about this point and we verified the information we h= ad. > > > > > So I can confirm now that the King is for the "theorically" stron= ger=20 > > > > > player, and the "Jade General" is for his "challenger". > > > > > It is clearly written in the japanese official rules. > > > > >=20 > > > > > Nevertheless, in the western amateur world, I've never seen peopl= e=20 > > > > > really=20 > > > > > taking care of this. > > > > >=20 > > > > > Fabien > > > > >=20 > > > > > Aquinaswannabe hotmail com wrote on 25/06/2007 04:15:36: > > > > >=20 > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > On P. 143 of "Shogi for Beginners," John Fairbairn writes, "It = is not=20 > > > > > > important but a convention that many players like ot follow, fo= r a bit=20 > > > > > > of extra atmosphere perhaps, is that if a set has two types of = king,=20 > > > > > > Black takes the one marked [Kanji character for 'jade'] and Whi= te take=20 > > > > > > marked [kanji character for 'king']." > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > Is John Fairfairn wrong about this? > > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 >=20 >=20 > =1B$B;{Hx!!3X=1B(B > =1B$B>-4}$r@$3&$K9-$a$k2q=1B(B > http://www.shogi-isps.org > Email:manabu.terao mx3 ttcn ne jp > TEL&FAX: 03-3708-5603 =20 =20 --------------------------------- Start Yahoo! Auction now! Check out the cool campaign --^---------------------------------------------------------------- This email was sent to: = shogi-l shogi net EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a2i6Ys.= aCqKR7.= c2hvZ2kt Or send an email to: shogi-unsubscribe topica com For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: http://www.topica.com/?p=3DTEXFOOTER --^---------------------------------------------------------------- --0-2110419791-1182847620=:25102 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-2022-jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I think in most professional games that the furigoma occurs before the= pieces are set up. So, the person that is Sente will naturally take the Os= ho ( non jade king.). We are talking about pros, so they will not take the = wrong piece by mistake.
 
In high level amateur games the same things probably happens. In regular club games it p= robably depends on the players. If that kind of thing matters to them then = they will change kings if they want. If they don't care then they will just= play as is.
 
This is not a big issue among most Japanese players so their is no need to have a hard and fast rule. It= is more of a cultural or traditional thing that a "shogi rules" thing.
 
Bill Gaudry

Aquinaswannabe hotmail com wrote:

I see. Just out of curiosity: is there any set of official rules of
shogi that mention such trading of kings after Furigoma?


Manabu Terao wrote:
>
> As far as my experience concerned, I've never seen such trading
> after Furigoma.
>
> Manabu Terao
>
> Aquinaswannabe hotmail com wrote:
>
> >
> > Just one last question to clear this up. I'm sorry if you find my=
> > question unnecessarily speculative.
> >
> > If the higher ranked player, who has taken the king general, is a= warded
> > sente through furigoma, do the two players then trade their kings= ?
> >
> >
> > Manabu Terao wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello shogi fans,
> > >
> > > I think it's time JSA to do so in their website. So ask JSA.=
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Manabu Terao
> > >
> > > Aquinaswannabe hotmail com wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I hope this isn't too much to ask for, but can you give= me a translation
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > of the relevant portion of the official rules?
> > > >
> > > > Also, if you give me a link to an English version of th= e official rules
> > > > online, I'd deeply appreciate it, as I've never been ab= le to find an
> > > > English version of the official rules online (though I'= ve found plenty
> > > > of rules.) It would be nice to have such a translation,= so that many
> > > > questions may be avoided.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > fabien.osmont teambridge ch wrote:
> > > > > Yes, I think he's wrong.
> > > > >
> > > > > A few monthes ago we had already a big discussion = in the french forum
> > > > > with
> > > > > "beginners" about this point and we verified the i= nformation we had.
> > > > > So I can confirm now that the King is for the "the= orically" stronger
> > > > > player, and the "Jade General" is for his "challen= ger".
> > > > > It is clearly written in the japanese official rul= es.
> > > > >
> > > > > Nevertheless, in the western amateur world, I've n= ever seen people
> > > > > really
> > > > > taking care of this.
> > > > >
> > > > > Fabien
> > > > >
> > > > > Aquinaswannabe hotmail com wrote on 25/06/2007 04:= 15:36:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On P. 143 of "Shogi for Beginners," John Fair= bairn writes, "It is not
> > > > > > important but a convention that many players = like ot follow, for a bit
> > > > > > of extra atmosphere perhaps, is that if a set= has two types of king,
> > > > > > Black takes the one marked [Kanji character f= or 'jade'] and White take
> > > > > > marked [kanji character for 'king']."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is John Fairfairn wrong about this?
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> =1B$B;{Hx!!3X=1B(B
> =1B$B>-4}$r@$3&$K9-$a$k2q=1B(B
> http://www.shogi-isps.org
> Email:manabu.terao mx3 ttcn ne jp
> TEL&FAX: 03-3708-5603




 

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