From: Aquinaswannabe hotmail com Date: 26 jun 2007 Subject: History of Shogi Feeling bad that I have asked so many questions without any contributions, I thought I can post a few of my own speculations about the history of Shogi (I'm certainly not qualified to talk about strategies and tactics as I'm terrible at actually playing the game.) History, however, is right up my alley. I'm not writing a complete history of Shogi, as there are many websites about that and even some discussions on this forum. Please forgive me if I'm reitering some points that have already been raised. 1) Is Shogi more influenced by Xiangqi or Makruk? At first glance the appearance of Shogi might lead one to think that it is closer to the Chinese game of Xiangqi than to the Thai game of Makruk. However, the similarities between Xiangqi and Shogi are few and in between. Here is a comparison for those who are not familiar with Xiangqi and Makruk (the following info can be found in other website, but I designed the list specifically to demonstrate my theory): Similarities between Shogi and Xiangqi that are different from Makruk: -The use of "2-dimensional" counters with Chinese Han Script/Kanji written on them (the Shogi pieces also use one Hiragana letter, "To"). -The pawn moves forward and captures one space forward. -A "symmetrical" baseline -- that is, instead of a king and a counselor/queen-type piece placed in the middle of the bottom line, the Xiangqi/Shogi king is flanked by two counselor-type pieces (in Shogi's case, the piece is a gold general.) Similarities between Shogi and Makruk that are different from Xiangqi: -Pieces are placed inside the squares rather than on the intersections of lines (like Weiqi/Go, Xiangqi pieces are placed on the intersections.) -The unique movements of the noble/silver general: one square forward and one square diagonal. One website suggests that this "unique" way of moving originated in a variant of the allegedly original chess form, Chaturanga. -The pawns begin on the third row. -Promotable pieces promote on the opponent's third row. -Promotion by flipping a promoted piece over. -The leaping knights (in Xiangqi, the knight cannot move to the two squares of a direction if a piece is immediately adjacent to the knight in that direction -- this is called "tripping the horse's legs" in Xiangqi lingo.) -The king moves in eight directions (in Xiangqi, the king/commander only moves in the four orthogonal directions.) The second list is not only longer -- the similarities are also hardly accidental (that is, except one: flipping the piece over for promotion seems like the most natural method for Shogi because it only makes sense to make use of the two sides of the counter, so that this development might not have been an influence from Makruk.) In the first list, two points are likely to be real influences: the forward capturing pawn and the "symmetrical" baseline. While the use of counters with words written on them might be simply a natural and economic choice, it seems like more than pure accidents that some of pieces share very similar names. For example, the second Kanji characters in Keima, Kyosha, and Fubyo are the same Chinese Han characters for their equivalent pieces: Ma, Che, and Bing. However, this accounts only for three out of many other piece-types. My provisional conclusion is that the first Shogi, Heian Shogi is the direct descendant of Makruk with some influences from Xiangqi. This raise two obvious questions: why didn't Xiangqi have more influence, and when did Xiangqi influences enter Shogi. The first question is a natural question for many who have studied East Asian history. Many important elements of Japanese traditional culture are borrowed from Chinese culture, including Go (the Chinese usually call it "Weiqi") and Zen Buddhism (Buddhism itself was in turn borrowed by China from India, although the Zen -- the Chinese pronounce it "Ch'an" -- form of Buddhism in particular is a very Chinese form of Buddhism, as it is influenced by Chinese philosophies and religions like Daoism). Some have even traced the kimono to Wu Chinese dress. The code of Samurai is obviously partly influenced by Rujia (a.k.a. Confucianism.) With so many cultural influences from China, it's intuitive to assume -- and many do -- that Shogi is also influenced by Chinese Xiangqi. However, there is very little historical finding to support a Chinese lineage of Shogi. Compare this to Go: it is a well-recognized, historical fact that Go entered Japan from China around the 8th-10th century (i.e., during the Tang dynasty in China, when Chinese influences on Japan were particularly strong.) It is documented that a Chinese emperor gave a Go board to a Japanese emperor as a gift. So why didn't Xiangqi get carried over to Japan like Go was? This would involve a lengthy answer, which I'll summarize here. First of all, Xiangqi might well have entered Japan, but lost in competition to Go and Makruk. But it is not surprising even if it didn't, because Xiangqi as we know it today probably did not become standardized until the Northern Song dynasty (circa 10th-12th centuries.) By that time, Chinese influences on Japan were probably weaker than before. Also even though Xiangqi already existed in a somewhat different forms during as early as the Tang dynasty, it was probably not a very popular game in China itself. It's very possible that it never got carried over to Japan. As to the second question, how did Xiangqi influences enter into Shogi at all, we shall begin with the assumption that Heian Shogi is indeed a direct descendant of Makruk. The route of Makruk to Japan is most likely through the seafaring routes along South and Southeast Asia, perhaps also partly through Southern China. The Chinese influenced could've been picked up along the way, or when the game has reached Japan. That's it for now. Sorry if these ideas have already been expressed elsewhere. Keep in mind, however, that I'm not merely suggesting that Shogi is a hybrid game: I'm suggesting that it should be traced to Makruk rather than to Xiangqi, despite the fact that it has some Xiangqi influences. One should, of course, keep in mind that ancient Chinese culture influenced ancient Japanese culture in numerous ways -- it's just that Shogi happens to be a comparatively rare case of South Asian influence on Japan. I'm also sorry if few people here are familiar with Xiangqi and Makruk. If the moderators permit, I'm more than happy to describe both games in greater details, if that would give people more food for thought about Shogi's history. (Note: there is also Janggi, the Korean chess variant. I didn't discuss it because it is 1) remarkably similar to Xiangqi when compared to all other chess variants and 2) Shogi is slightly more similar to Xiangqi than to Janggi.) --^---------------------------------------------------------------- This email was sent to: shogi-l shogi net EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a2i6Ys.aCqKR7.c2hvZ2kt Or send an email to: shogi-unsubscribe topica com For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: http://www.topica.com/?p=TEXFOOTER --^----------------------------------------------------------------