From: Larry Kaufman comcast net> Date: 9 nov 2005 Subject: Re: Japanese Elo-Rating Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: ------------------------------------------------------------------- MAKE NEW FRIENDS, MEET POTENTIAL BUSINESS PARTNERS, FIND THAT SPECIAL SOMEO= NE! IT'S EASY, IT'S FUN! AND BEST OF ALL, IT'S TOTALLY FREE! http://click.topica.com/= caaeatFa2i6YsbnuqMaa/Friendsand.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- The Shoreikai 3 Dan I played seemed to be in his twenties, and stated= =20 that his rating on the Tokyo Ama system was "around 1900'' or "over 1900".= =20 He showed me his name in the Shogi Sekai, it was the fifth name on the top= =20 counting from the right, which should mean number 5 position. Perhaps this= =20 was not the latest issue, so it could mean number 5 in the previous season.= Larry Kaufman ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "bogin" yahoo co jp> To: topica com> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 9:21 PM Subject: Re: Japanese Elo-Rating Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: ------------------------------------------------------------------- Need a new Cell Phone? A BlackBerry 7250 could be yours free! Find out how! http://click.topica.com/caaeatua2i6Ysa7fLLna/Amazing phone ------------------------------------------------------------------- I found the following list of this years Shoreikai 3-dan league on the web.= http://www.ne.jp/asahi/yaston/shogi/syoreikai/3dan/league/3dan_league38.htm= According to that list, 16 year old Nakamura Taichi (first name Taichi may be pronounced differently) is hold the number 5 slot on the ladder. I am assuming that means he is considered the 5th ranked Pro 3-dan (By the way, I do not think 3-dan Shoreikai players are referred to as pros. I think they are just called either Shoreikai 3-dans or 3-dans. Players start being= called pros at 4-dan.) Anyway, I checked on the rating list you mention and young Nakamura #-dan is not listed at all on the 1 to 1130 list(ratings 2050 to 1589). I did not= check any of the other pages since it a Shoreikai 3-dan would probably be ranked that low. I looked for some other Shoreikai 3-dans as well. And the only ones I could= find were (I am not sure of the exact pronunciation of some of the names) Shoreikai 3-dan #7 Oikawa Takuma (Tokyo Amateur rating 1888 rank #59) Shoreikai 3-dan #12 Tonooka Yuri (Tokyo Amateur rating 1753 rank #255 371 games played ) Shoreikai 3-dan #14 Tobe Makoto (Tokyo Amateur rating 1662 rank #622 214 games played) Shoreikai 3-dan #22 Kikuchi Yuta (Tokyo Amateur rating 1912 rank #42 748 games played) I might have missed a few, and I did not check the lower ranked lists. By the way, the highest rated amateur on the Japanese Amateur Association's= homepage, Mr. Hayasaki (2477 at 958 games played) is only rated 1601 #1013 at 9 games played on the Tokyo Amateur list). I am not sure what these ratings even. I would imagine that someone in the Shoreikai 3-dan league is much stronger than a rating of 1662 would indicate. Maybe these ratings for the Shoreikai members are old ones and do= not really reflect their current strength. I would imagine they are spending more time playing other Shoreikai 3-dans and Shogi pros in both official and practise games then they do playing in amateur tournaments. This is just a guess, it might be looked upon unfavourably by their peers if they play in too many amateur events and there maybe some rules that prevent them from doing so. Maybe someone else knows more about that. Bill Gaudry --- Larry Kaufman comcast net> =1B$B$+$i$N%a%C%;!<%8!'=1B(B > Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > New Apple=1B$B!&=1B(BiPod=1B$B!&=1B(Bnano. As Thin as a No. 2 Pencil. Sto= res up to 3 > Days of Songs! Get it Here FREE*! > http://click.topica.com/caaeatBa2i6Ysa7fLJaa/Superb Rewards > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > I note that the list shows Segawa has only played 87 rated > games, > whereas most of those above him have played hundreds. Since he had to > work > his way up from 1500, this probably accounts for his relatively > "poor" > standing. I played the fifth-ranked Pro 3 Dan in a rated game last > month, > and his rating was also in the low 1900s. This gives you some idea of > how > strong are the players on this rating list. > The lower ratings vs. Japan Amateur Shogi Association don't > imply a > "different system", just lower starting ratings. Roughly speaking > just add > 500 to Tokyo Ama ratings for comparison. > By the way, Japanese characters don't show up on my computer (or > on the > computers of many of our subscribers), so we can't read the names on > this > list. Whenever the new list comes out, could you possibly list any > non-Japanese names on the list with the ratings for us? If so, thanks > in > advance. > > Larry Kaufman > > > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: "Richard Sams" parkcity ne jp> > To: topica com> > Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 12:26 AM > Subject: Re: Japanese Elo-Rating > > > It is interesting to note that Segawa is only ranked 27th in this > list, > with a rating of 1940. In the list of the Japan Amateur Shogi > Association, Segawa is ranked 7th with a rating of 2407 (the highest > rating is 2477), so presumably they use a different system. > > Richard Sams > > > On 2005/11/08, at 13:58, Larry Kaufman wrote: > > > Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > FREE DVR > > And up to 3 additional standard receivers! > > Call 1-800- 901 - 5080 Today > > http://click.topica.com/caaeas1a2i6YsbqdEI9a/DirectSatTV > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > http://homepage2.nifty.com/toushouren/rankingtop.htm > > > > This is the page for the rating list of the Tokyo Amateur Shogi > > > Association (I may not have the name exactly right.). They use > pretty much > > the same Elo system as FESA or ShogiDojo or Japanese Amateur > Renmei, > > except the ratings move a bit slower than ShogiDojo since they use > 12 per > > win +/- 3% instead of 16 and 4%. Also they start everyone at 1500 > so the > > ratings are lower than on the other systems, since the average > player on > > their system is probably at least 3 Dan by normal standards. The > top > > players on this system (Amateur title-holders and Shoreikai 3 Dan > pros) > > are rated in the 1900-2000 range. Several western players (myself, > my son > > Raymond, the French player Nguyen, and the Icelander Jensson, at > least) > > should appear on their next rating list. > > > > Larry Kaufman > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jochen Drechsler" > web de> > > To: topica com> > > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 9:45 AM > > Subject: Japanese Elo-Rating > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > in the latest e-mails I heard you talk (!?) about the Japanese > Amateur > > Shogi > > Federation and Tokyo Amateur Shogi Association. It also sounds as > if they > > use a elo rating system. > > Can you show me a link to their homepage? > > Do they use an rating-system similar to the FESA elo-system? > > If yes, were can I find rating list? And how do those ratings > correspond > > to the FESA rating? > > > > Jochum. > > > > > > shogi topica com schrieb am 07.11.05 15:28:45: > >> > >> Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> Oprah vs Dr. Phil- who is your favorite? Vote now. > >> http://click.topica.com/caaeatsa2i6Ysa7fLJJa/Your opinion > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> Two comments: I don't understand the talk about a "gap" > between > >> amateurs and pros. Obviously pros are much stronger on average > than > >> amateurs, even amateurs who participate in national championships. > But it > >> is > >> also clear that there is some overlap, i.e. that the top few > amateurs are > >> stronger than the weaker pros. It is the same in chess: some > players > >> without > >> an international title are stronger than some who have it, but > none > >> without > >> it are as strong as the title contenders. > >> Second point: Of course it is obvious that there is no > non-Japanese > >> player who is even remotely close to Pro strength. With the > various > >> rating > >> systems we have now (Shogi Club 24, Pan-Atlantic, Japanese Amateur > Shogi > >> Federation, Tokyo Amateur Shogi Association, etc.) it is quite > clear how > >> far > >> any particular individual is from pro strength, and currently no > one is > >> closer than about a bishop handicap from the lower pro levels. The > > >> question > >> is, if some westerner, presumably a top-level chess player, makes > the > >> switch > >> to shogi and demonstrates that his level is indeed on a par with > average > >> c2 > >> class pros, but he is over the 20 year age limit to join > Shoreikai, what > >> would be done for him (or her)? > >> At the minimum, I believe that the Renmei would let him join > the > >> Shoreikai if he were still under age 30. Otherwise, if he > demonstrated > >> similar results to Segawa, don't you think that a similar test > would be > >> arranged? I know it's all highly hypothetical, but it's not > totally > >> unreasonable to imagine a young grandmaster making the switch and > >> reaching > >> pro strength. > >> > >> Larry Kaufman > >> > > ______________________________________________________________ > > Verschicken Sie romantische, coole und witzige Bilder per SMS! > > Jetzt bei WEB.DE FreeMail: http://f.web.de/?mc=3D021193 > > > > Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > So Much Television, Such Little Time! In Love with Lost(TM) or > > Devoted to Desperate Housewives(TM)? Take our premier week > > survey, complete our offers, and get a FREE* DVD set of either > > show! > > http://click.topica.com/caaeatAa2i6Ysa7fLLnf/Viewer Survey > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > New Apple=1B$B!&=1B(BiPod=1B$B!&=1B(Bnano. As Thin as a No. 2 Pencil. S= tores up to 3 > Days of > > Songs! Get it Here FREE*! > > http://click.topica.com/caaeatBa2i6YsbqdEI9f/Superb > > Rewards > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Oprah vs Dr. Phil- who is your favorite? Vote now. > http://click.topica.com/caaeatsa2i6Ysa7fLLnf/Your opinion > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Oprah vs Dr. Phil- who is your favorite? Vote now. > http://click.topica.com/caaeatsa2i6Ysa7fLJaf/Your opinion > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail - supported by 10million people http://pr.mail.yahoo.co.jp/10m/ Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: ------------------------------------------------------------------- MAKE NEW FRIENDS, MEET POTENTIAL BUSINESS PARTNERS, FIND THAT SPECIAL=20 SOMEONE! IT'S EASY, IT'S FUN! AND BEST OF ALL, IT'S TOTALLY FREE! http://click.topica.com/caaeatFa2i6Ysa7fLLnf/Friendsand.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: ------------------------------------------------------------------- Need a new Cell Phone? A BlackBerry 7250 could be yours free! Find=20 out how! http://click.topica.com/= caaeatua2i6YsbnuqMaf/Amazing phone ------------------------------------------------------------------- --^---------------------------------------------------------------- This email was sent to: = shogi-l shogi net EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a2i6Ys.= bnuqMa.= c2hvZ2kt Or send an email to: shogi-unsubscribe topica com For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: http://www.topica.com/?p=3DTEXFOOTER --^----------------------------------------------------------------