From: Larry Kaufman comcast net> Date: 9 nov 2005 Subject: Re: Japanese Elo-Rating Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: ------------------------------------------------------------------- So Much Television, Such Little Time! In Love with Lost(TM) or=20 Devoted to Desperate Housewives(TM)? Take our premier week=20 survey, complete our offers, and get a FREE* DVD set of either=20 show! http://click.topica.com/= caaeatAa2i6YsbnuqMaa/Viewer Survey ------------------------------------------------------------------- The list is supposed to come out monthly, if I understood correctly,= =20 and since it's already been two weeks since we played in Tokyo, it should b= e=20 sometime in the next two weeks. Because none of us had time for a great many games, and the ratings= =20 start at 1500 and move slowly, all of us should be between 1400 and 1600. Larry Kaufman ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Richard Sams" parkcity ne jp> To: topica com> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 7:23 PM Subject: Re: Japanese Elo-Rating Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: ------------------------------------------------------------------- So Much Television, Such Little Time! In Love with Lost(TM) or Devoted to Desperate Housewives(TM)? Take our premier week survey, complete our offers, and get a FREE* DVD set of either show! http://click.topica.com/caaeatAa2i6Ysa7fLLna/Viewer Survey ------------------------------------------------------------------- > By the way, Japanese characters don't show up on my computer (or on= =20 > the computers of many of our subscribers), so we can't read the names on= =20 > this list. Whenever the new list comes out, could you possibly list any= =20 > non-Japanese names on the list with the ratings for us? If so, thanks in= =20 > advance. I can do this for you, but it would be helpful if you could inform me when the new list comes out and the estimated ratings of the western who are likely to appear on it. Richard Sams On 2005/11/08, at 23:24, Larry Kaufman wrote: > Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > New Apple=AE iPod=AE nano. As Thin as a No. 2 Pencil. Stores up to 3 Days= of=20 > Songs! Get it Here FREE*! > http://click.topica.com/caaeatBa2i6YsbqdEI9a/Superb=20 > Rewards -----------------------------------------------------------------= -- > > I note that the list shows Segawa has only played 87 rated games,=20 > whereas most of those above him have played hundreds. Since he had to wor= k=20 > his way up from 1500, this probably accounts for his relatively "poor"= =20 > standing. I played the fifth-ranked Pro 3 Dan in a rated game last month,= =20 > and his rating was also in the low 1900s. This gives you some idea of how= =20 > strong are the players on this rating list. > The lower ratings vs. Japan Amateur Shogi Association don't imply a= =20 > "different system", just lower starting ratings. Roughly speaking just ad= d=20 > 500 to Tokyo Ama ratings for comparison. > By the way, Japanese characters don't show up on my computer (or on= =20 > the computers of many of our subscribers), so we can't read the names on= =20 > this list. Whenever the new list comes out, could you possibly list any= =20 > non-Japanese names on the list with the ratings for us? If so, thanks in= =20 > advance. > > Larry Kaufman > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Sams" parkcity ne jp> > To: topica com> > Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 12:26 AM > Subject: Re: Japanese Elo-Rating > > > It is interesting to note that Segawa is only ranked 27th in this list, > with a rating of 1940. In the list of the Japan Amateur Shogi > Association, Segawa is ranked 7th with a rating of 2407 (the highest > rating is 2477), so presumably they use a different system. > > Richard Sams > > > On 2005/11/08, at 13:58, Larry Kaufman wrote: > >> Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> FREE DVR >> And up to 3 additional standard receivers! >> Call 1-800- 901 - 5080 Today >> http://click.topica.com/caaeas1a2i6YsbqdEI9a/DirectSatTV >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> http://homepage2.nifty.com/toushouren/rankingtop.htm >> >> This is the page for the rating list of the Tokyo Amateur Shogi=20 >> Association (I may not have the name exactly right.). They use pretty= =20 >> much the same Elo system as FESA or ShogiDojo or Japanese Amateur Renmei= ,=20 >> except the ratings move a bit slower than ShogiDojo since they use 12 pe= r=20 >> win +/- 3% instead of 16 and 4%. Also they start everyone at 1500 so the= =20 >> ratings are lower than on the other systems, since the average player on= =20 >> their system is probably at least 3 Dan by normal standards. The top=20 >> players on this system (Amateur title-holders and Shoreikai 3 Dan pros)= =20 >> are rated in the 1900-2000 range. Several western players (myself, my so= n=20 >> Raymond, the French player Nguyen, and the Icelander Jensson, at least)= =20 >> should appear on their next rating list. >> >> Larry Kaufman >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jochen Drechsler" web de> >> To: topica com> >> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 9:45 AM >> Subject: Japanese Elo-Rating >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Dear all, >> >> in the latest e-mails I heard you talk (!?) about the Japanese Amateur= =20 >> Shogi >> Federation and Tokyo Amateur Shogi Association. It also sounds as if= =20 >> they use a elo rating system. >> Can you show me a link to their homepage? >> Do they use an rating-system similar to the FESA elo-system? >> If yes, were can I find rating list? And how do those ratings correspond= =20 >> to the FESA rating? >> >> Jochum. >> >> >> shogi topica com schrieb am 07.11.05 15:28:45: >>> >>> Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Oprah vs Dr. Phil- who is your favorite? Vote now. >>> http://click.topica.com/caaeatsa2i6Ysa7fLJJa/Your opinion >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Two comments: I don't understand the talk about a "gap" between >>> amateurs and pros. Obviously pros are much stronger on average than >>> amateurs, even amateurs who participate in national championships. But= =20 >>> it is >>> also clear that there is some overlap, i.e. that the top few amateurs= =20 >>> are >>> stronger than the weaker pros. It is the same in chess: some players= =20 >>> without >>> an international title are stronger than some who have it, but none=20 >>> without >>> it are as strong as the title contenders. >>> Second point: Of course it is obvious that there is no non-Japanes= e >>> player who is even remotely close to Pro strength. With the various=20 >>> rating >>> systems we have now (Shogi Club 24, Pan-Atlantic, Japanese Amateur Shog= i >>> Federation, Tokyo Amateur Shogi Association, etc.) it is quite clear ho= w=20 >>> far >>> any particular individual is from pro strength, and currently no one is= >>> closer than about a bishop handicap from the lower pro levels. The=20 >>> question >>> is, if some westerner, presumably a top-level chess player, makes the= =20 >>> switch >>> to shogi and demonstrates that his level is indeed on a par with averag= e=20 >>> c2 >>> class pros, but he is over the 20 year age limit to join Shoreikai, wha= t >>> would be done for him (or her)? >>> At the minimum, I believe that the Renmei would let him join the >>> Shoreikai if he were still under age 30. Otherwise, if he demonstrated >>> similar results to Segawa, don't you think that a similar test would be= >>> arranged? I know it's all highly hypothetical, but it's not totally >>> unreasonable to imagine a young grandmaster making the switch and=20 >>> reaching >>> pro strength. >>> >>> Larry Kaufman >>> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Verschicken Sie romantische, coole und witzige Bilder per SMS! >> Jetzt bei WEB.DE FreeMail: http://f.web.de/?mc=3D021193 >> >> Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> So Much Television, Such Little Time! In Love with Lost(TM) or >> Devoted to Desperate Housewives(TM)? Take our premier week >> survey, complete our offers, and get a FREE* DVD set of either >> show! >> http://click.topica.com/caaeatAa2i6Ysa7fLLnf/Viewer Survey >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> New Apple=AE iPod=AE nano. As Thin as a No. 2 Pencil. Stores up to 3 Day= s of=20 >> Songs! Get it Here FREE*! >> http://click.topica.com/caaeatBa2i6YsbqdEI9f/Superb=20 >> Rewards ----------------------------------------------------------------= --- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Oprah vs Dr. Phil- who is your favorite? Vote now. > http://click.topica.com/caaeatsa2i6Ysa7fLLnf/Your opinion > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Oprah vs Dr. Phil- who is your favorite? Vote now. > http://click.topica.com/caaeatsa2i6YsbqdEI9f/Your opinion > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: ------------------------------------------------------------------- New Apple=AE iPod=AE nano. As Thin as a No. 2 Pencil. Stores up to 3 Days of Songs! Get it Here FREE*! http://click.topica.com/caaeatBa2i6Ysa7fLLnf/Superb Rewards ------------------------------------------------------------------- Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: ------------------------------------------------------------------- FREE DVR And up to 3 additional standard receivers! 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