From: Richard Sams parkcity ne jp> Date: 9 nov 2005 Subject: Re: Japanese Elo-Rating Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: ------------------------------------------------------------------- So Much Television, Such Little Time! In Love with Lost(TM) or=20 Devoted to Desperate Housewives(TM)? Take our premier week=20 survey, complete our offers, and get a FREE* DVD set of either=20 show! http://click.topica.com/= caaeatAa2i6YsbnuqMaa/Viewer Survey ------------------------------------------------------------------- > By the way, Japanese characters don't show up on my computer (or=20 > on the computers of many of our subscribers), so we can't read the=20 > names on this list. Whenever the new list comes out, could you=20 > possibly list any non-Japanese names on the list with the ratings for=20 > us? If so, thanks in advance. I can do this for you, but it would be helpful if you could inform me=20 when the new list comes out and the estimated ratings of the western=20 who are likely to appear on it. Richard Sams On 2005/11/08, at 23:24, Larry Kaufman wrote: > Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > New Apple=AE iPod=AE nano. As Thin as a No. 2 Pencil. Stores up to 3 Days= =20 > of Songs! Get it Here FREE*! > http://click.topica.com/caaeatBa2i6YsbqdEI9a/Superb Rewards=20 > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > I note that the list shows Segawa has only played 87 rated games,=20 > whereas most of those above him have played hundreds. Since he had to=20 > work his way up from 1500, this probably accounts for his relatively=20 > "poor" standing. I played the fifth-ranked Pro 3 Dan in a rated game=20 > last month, and his rating was also in the low 1900s. This gives you=20 > some idea of how strong are the players on this rating list. > The lower ratings vs. Japan Amateur Shogi Association don't imply=20 > a "different system", just lower starting ratings. Roughly speaking=20 > just add 500 to Tokyo Ama ratings for comparison. > By the way, Japanese characters don't show up on my computer (or=20 > on the computers of many of our subscribers), so we can't read the=20 > names on this list. Whenever the new list comes out, could you=20 > possibly list any non-Japanese names on the list with the ratings for=20 > us? If so, thanks in advance. > > Larry Kaufman > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Sams" parkcity ne jp> > To: topica com> > Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 12:26 AM > Subject: Re: Japanese Elo-Rating > > > It is interesting to note that Segawa is only ranked 27th in this list, > with a rating of 1940. In the list of the Japan Amateur Shogi > Association, Segawa is ranked 7th with a rating of 2407 (the highest > rating is 2477), so presumably they use a different system. > > Richard Sams > > > On 2005/11/08, at 13:58, Larry Kaufman wrote: > >> Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> FREE DVR >> And up to 3 additional standard receivers! >> Call 1-800- 901 - 5080 Today >> http://click.topica.com/caaeas1a2i6YsbqdEI9a/DirectSatTV >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> http://homepage2.nifty.com/toushouren/rankingtop.htm >> >> This is the page for the rating list of the Tokyo Amateur Shogi=20 >> Association (I may not have the name exactly right.). They use pretty= =20 >> much the same Elo system as FESA or ShogiDojo or Japanese Amateur=20 >> Renmei, except the ratings move a bit slower than ShogiDojo since=20 >> they use 12 per win +/- 3% instead of 16 and 4%. Also they start=20 >> everyone at 1500 so the ratings are lower than on the other systems,=20 >> since the average player on their system is probably at least 3 Dan=20 >> by normal standards. The top players on this system (Amateur=20 >> title-holders and Shoreikai 3 Dan pros) are rated in the 1900-2000=20 >> range. Several western players (myself, my son Raymond, the French=20 >> player Nguyen, and the Icelander Jensson, at least) should appear on=20 >> their next rating list. >> >> Larry Kaufman >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jochen Drechsler"=20 >> web de> >> To: topica com> >> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 9:45 AM >> Subject: Japanese Elo-Rating >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Dear all, >> >> in the latest e-mails I heard you talk (!?) about the Japanese=20 >> Amateur Shogi >> Federation and Tokyo Amateur Shogi Association. It also sounds as if= =20 >> they use a elo rating system. >> Can you show me a link to their homepage? >> Do they use an rating-system similar to the FESA elo-system? >> If yes, were can I find rating list? And how do those ratings=20 >> correspond to the FESA rating? >> >> Jochum. >> >> >> shogi topica com schrieb am 07.11.05 15:28:45: >>> >>> Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Oprah vs Dr. Phil- who is your favorite? Vote now. >>> http://click.topica.com/caaeatsa2i6Ysa7fLJJa/Your opinion >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Two comments: I don't understand the talk about a "gap" between >>> amateurs and pros. Obviously pros are much stronger on average than >>> amateurs, even amateurs who participate in national championships.=20 >>> But it is >>> also clear that there is some overlap, i.e. that the top few=20 >>> amateurs are >>> stronger than the weaker pros. It is the same in chess: some players= =20 >>> without >>> an international title are stronger than some who have it, but none=20 >>> without >>> it are as strong as the title contenders. >>> Second point: Of course it is obvious that there is no=20 >>> non-Japanese >>> player who is even remotely close to Pro strength. With the various=20 >>> rating >>> systems we have now (Shogi Club 24, Pan-Atlantic, Japanese Amateur=20 >>> Shogi >>> Federation, Tokyo Amateur Shogi Association, etc.) it is quite clear= =20 >>> how far >>> any particular individual is from pro strength, and currently no one= =20 >>> is >>> closer than about a bishop handicap from the lower pro levels. The=20 >>> question >>> is, if some westerner, presumably a top-level chess player, makes=20 >>> the switch >>> to shogi and demonstrates that his level is indeed on a par with=20 >>> average c2 >>> class pros, but he is over the 20 year age limit to join Shoreikai,=20 >>> what >>> would be done for him (or her)? >>> At the minimum, I believe that the Renmei would let him join the >>> Shoreikai if he were still under age 30. Otherwise, if he=20 >>> demonstrated >>> similar results to Segawa, don't you think that a similar test would= =20 >>> be >>> arranged? I know it's all highly hypothetical, but it's not totally >>> unreasonable to imagine a young grandmaster making the switch and=20 >>> reaching >>> pro strength. >>> >>> Larry Kaufman >>> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Verschicken Sie romantische, coole und witzige Bilder per SMS! >> Jetzt bei WEB.DE FreeMail: http://f.web.de/?mc=3D021193 >> >> Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> So Much Television, Such Little Time! In Love with Lost(TM) or >> Devoted to Desperate Housewives(TM)? Take our premier week >> survey, complete our offers, and get a FREE* DVD set of either >> show! >> http://click.topica.com/caaeatAa2i6Ysa7fLLnf/Viewer Survey >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> New Apple=AE iPod=AE nano. As Thin as a No. 2 Pencil. Stores up to 3 Day= s=20 >> of Songs! Get it Here FREE*! >> http://click.topica.com/caaeatBa2i6YsbqdEI9f/Superb Rewards=20 >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Oprah vs Dr. Phil- who is your favorite? Vote now. > http://click.topica.com/caaeatsa2i6Ysa7fLLnf/Your opinion > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Oprah vs Dr. Phil- who is your favorite? Vote now. > http://click.topica.com/caaeatsa2i6YsbqdEI9f/Your opinion > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: ------------------------------------------------------------------- New Apple=AE iPod=AE nano. As Thin as a No. 2 Pencil. Stores up to 3=20 Days of Songs! 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