From: Larry Kaufman comcast net> Date: 8 nov 2005 Subject: Re: Japanese Elo-Rating Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: ------------------------------------------------------------------- New Apple=AE iPod=AE nano. As Thin as a No. 2 Pencil. Stores up to 3=20 Days of Songs! Get it Here FREE*! http://click.topica.com/= caaeatBa2i6YsbnuqMaa/Superb Rewards=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------- I note that the list shows Segawa has only played 87 rated games,=20 whereas most of those above him have played hundreds. Since he had to work= =20 his way up from 1500, this probably accounts for his relatively "poor"=20 standing. I played the fifth-ranked Pro 3 Dan in a rated game last month,= =20 and his rating was also in the low 1900s. This gives you some idea of how= =20 strong are the players on this rating list. The lower ratings vs. Japan Amateur Shogi Association don't imply a= =20 "different system", just lower starting ratings. Roughly speaking just add= =20 500 to Tokyo Ama ratings for comparison. By the way, Japanese characters don't show up on my computer (or on th= e=20 computers of many of our subscribers), so we can't read the names on this= =20 list. Whenever the new list comes out, could you possibly list any=20 non-Japanese names on the list with the ratings for us? If so, thanks in= =20 advance. Larry Kaufman ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Richard Sams" parkcity ne jp> To: topica com> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 12:26 AM Subject: Re: Japanese Elo-Rating It is interesting to note that Segawa is only ranked 27th in this list, with a rating of 1940. In the list of the Japan Amateur Shogi Association, Segawa is ranked 7th with a rating of 2407 (the highest rating is 2477), so presumably they use a different system. Richard Sams On 2005/11/08, at 13:58, Larry Kaufman wrote: > Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > FREE DVR > And up to 3 additional standard receivers! > Call 1-800- 901 - 5080 Today > http://click.topica.com/caaeas1a2i6YsbqdEI9a/DirectSatTV > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > http://homepage2.nifty.com/toushouren/rankingtop.htm > > This is the page for the rating list of the Tokyo Amateur Shogi=20 > Association (I may not have the name exactly right.). They use pretty muc= h=20 > the same Elo system as FESA or ShogiDojo or Japanese Amateur Renmei,=20 > except the ratings move a bit slower than ShogiDojo since they use 12 per= =20 > win +/- 3% instead of 16 and 4%. Also they start everyone at 1500 so the= =20 > ratings are lower than on the other systems, since the average player on= =20 > their system is probably at least 3 Dan by normal standards. The top=20 > players on this system (Amateur title-holders and Shoreikai 3 Dan pros)= =20 > are rated in the 1900-2000 range. Several western players (myself, my son= =20 > Raymond, the French player Nguyen, and the Icelander Jensson, at least)= =20 > should appear on their next rating list. > > Larry Kaufman > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jochen Drechsler" web de> > To: topica com> > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 9:45 AM > Subject: Japanese Elo-Rating > > > > > > > > Dear all, > > in the latest e-mails I heard you talk (!?) about the Japanese Amateur= =20 > Shogi > Federation and Tokyo Amateur Shogi Association. It also sounds as if the= y=20 > use a elo rating system. > Can you show me a link to their homepage? > Do they use an rating-system similar to the FESA elo-system? > If yes, were can I find rating list? And how do those ratings correspond= =20 > to the FESA rating? > > Jochum. > > > shogi topica com schrieb am 07.11.05 15:28:45: >> >> Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Oprah vs Dr. Phil- who is your favorite? Vote now. >> http://click.topica.com/caaeatsa2i6Ysa7fLJJa/Your opinion >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Two comments: I don't understand the talk about a "gap" between >> amateurs and pros. Obviously pros are much stronger on average than >> amateurs, even amateurs who participate in national championships. But i= t=20 >> is >> also clear that there is some overlap, i.e. that the top few amateurs ar= e >> stronger than the weaker pros. It is the same in chess: some players=20 >> without >> an international title are stronger than some who have it, but none=20 >> without >> it are as strong as the title contenders. >> Second point: Of course it is obvious that there is no non-Japanese= >> player who is even remotely close to Pro strength. With the various=20 >> rating >> systems we have now (Shogi Club 24, Pan-Atlantic, Japanese Amateur Shogi= >> Federation, Tokyo Amateur Shogi Association, etc.) it is quite clear how= =20 >> far >> any particular individual is from pro strength, and currently no one is >> closer than about a bishop handicap from the lower pro levels. The=20 >> question >> is, if some westerner, presumably a top-level chess player, makes the= =20 >> switch >> to shogi and demonstrates that his level is indeed on a par with average= =20 >> c2 >> class pros, but he is over the 20 year age limit to join Shoreikai, what= >> would be done for him (or her)? >> At the minimum, I believe that the Renmei would let him join the >> Shoreikai if he were still under age 30. Otherwise, if he demonstrated >> similar results to Segawa, don't you think that a similar test would be >> arranged? I know it's all highly hypothetical, but it's not totally >> unreasonable to imagine a young grandmaster making the switch and=20 >> reaching >> pro strength. >> >> Larry Kaufman >> > ______________________________________________________________ > Verschicken Sie romantische, coole und witzige Bilder per SMS! > Jetzt bei WEB.DE FreeMail: http://f.web.de/?mc=3D021193 > > Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > So Much Television, Such Little Time! In Love with Lost(TM) or > Devoted to Desperate Housewives(TM)? Take our premier week > survey, complete our offers, and get a FREE* DVD set of either > show! > http://click.topica.com/caaeatAa2i6Ysa7fLLnf/Viewer Survey > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > New Apple=AE iPod=AE nano. As Thin as a No. 2 Pencil. Stores up to 3 Days= of=20 > Songs! Get it Here FREE*! > http://click.topica.com/caaeatBa2i6YsbqdEI9f/Superb=20 > Rewards -----------------------------------------------------------------= -- > > > > > > > > Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: ------------------------------------------------------------------- Oprah vs Dr. Phil- who is your favorite? Vote now. http://click.topica.com/caaeatsa2i6Ysa7fLLnf/Your opinion ------------------------------------------------------------------- Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: ------------------------------------------------------------------- Oprah vs Dr. Phil- who is your favorite? 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