From: E R webtv net> Date: 31 aug 2004 Subject: Re: Results from Shogi ESC WOSC 2004 in Munich / Germany --WebTV-Mail-19923-849 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: ------------------------------------------------------------------- Save on inkjet and toner, and get free shipping on orders over $50. http://click.topica.com/= caacAsfa2i6YsbnuqMaa/Inksoutlet ------------------------------------------------------------------- Isn't moving first an advantage? Why wouldn't you want a program to even out who gets first move? Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: ------------------------------------------------------------------- Need cash fast? Get a $500 CASH ADVANCE overnight! Let=20 YourCashCentral get you the cash you need. http://click.topica.com/= caacxyca2i6YsbnuqMaf/MyOnlinePayday ------------------------------------------------------------------- --^---------------------------------------------------------------- This email was sent to: = shogi-l shogi net EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a2i6Ys.= bnuqMa.= c2hvZ2kt Or send an email to: shogi-unsubscribe topica com For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: http://www.topica.com/?p=3DTEXFOOTER --^---------------------------------------------------------------- --WebTV-Mail-19923-849 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Message/RFC822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Received: from smtpin-3115.bay.webtv.net (209.240.204.225) by storefull-3274.bay.webtv.net with WTV-SMTP; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 16:24:45 -0700 Received: from out008.topica-platinum-w.com (out008.topica-platinum-w.com [65.77.104.28]) by smtpin-3115.bay.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix+sws) with SMTP id 3CF6AFE18 for webtv net>; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 16:24:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 13789 invoked by uid 0); 31 Aug 2004 23:24:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO huva.hittite.isp.9tel.net) (62.62.156.6) by 0 with SMTP; 31 Aug 2004 23:24:33 -0000 Received: from [192.168.0.2] (29.237.39-62.rev.gaoland.net [62.39.237.29]) by huva.hittite.isp.9tel.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA43B14B5B1 for topica com>; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 01:38:37 +0200 (CEST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) In-Reply-To: <1967627821-1463792382-1093988213 boing topica com> References: <1967627821-1463792382-1093988213 boing topica com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) To: shogi topica com From: Eric macshogi com> Subject: Re: Results from Shogi ESC WOSC 2004 in Munich / Germany Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 01:24:29 +0200 Message-ID: <654083275-1463792382-1093994677 boing topica com> Errors-To: boing topica com> Reply-To: shogi topica com X-Topica-Id: <1093994674.inmta009.32382.1475990> List-Help: topica com/> List-Unsubscribe: topica com> X-Brightmail: Message tested, results are inconclusive Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: ------------------------------------------------------------------- Save on inkjet and toner, and get free shipping on orders over $50. http://click.topica.com/= caacAsfa2i6Ysbn8jDxa/Inksoutlet ------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Thomas, > Ad 2: > You are right! There were really some strange pairings at the WOSC. > I also was paired once down one group although i was the strongest=20 > player of my group. > > The problem was in my opinion the used pairing program MacMahon, which= =20 > supports a kind of swiss pariing system, but no real swiss system. It=20 > works well for Mac mahon tournaments but not well for swiss systems. > > The program tries always to equalize the SOS-points of the players.=20 > So if there is an uneven number of players i one group, it pairs down=20 > the strongest player of a group (the player with the highest actual=20 > SOS-points) to the weakest player (!) of the next group. I unsderstand better. Equalizing SOS seems really strange. I have never=20 seen this before ! > This is quite unfair! It first punishes the stronger player (because=20 > you get for this round and probably also for the following rounds less= =20 > SOS-points ) and secondly produces a lot of uninteresting games=20 > (strong vs. weak player), You are completely right. > For the next ESC/WOSC a real swiss pairing program has to be used!!! But be careful about what you call a "real swiss pairing program", we=20 already have used a chess pairing program but it took colours into=20 account : this has already been a problem (the program tries to=20 alternate colours and prevents you to get the same colour for 3 games=20 in a row). Thanks for your mail Thomas. I know now that we are several to take=20 this problem seriously into account :-)) Marc will study this problem=20 as well. I hope that other will join us. I hope we will not find again previous pairing problems or previous=20 final tournaments tables unfairness. All the best, =C9ric ---------------- Study Shogi and read shogi reportages at http://eric.macshogi.com/ The first Mac OS X Shogi Database Program at http://www.macshogi.com/ Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: ------------------------------------------------------------------- RE-GROW YOUR HAIR STARTING NOW.....Click here for more info! http://click.topica.com/= caacxyda2i6Ysbn8jDxf/Medical Hair Restoration ------------------------------------------------------------------- --WebTV-Mail-19923-849--