From: Thomas Pfaffel hotmail com> Date: 31 aug 2004 Subject: Re: Results from Shogi ESC WOSC 2004 in Munich / Germany Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: ------------------------------------------------------------------- Save on inkjet and toner, and get free shipping on orders over $50. http://click.topica.com/= caacAsfa2i6YsbnuqMaa/Inksoutlet ------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Eric! Ad 2: You are right! There were really some strange pairings at the WOSC. I also was paired once down one group although i was the strongest player o= f=20 my group. The problem was in my opinion the used pairing program MacMahon, which=20 supports a kind of swiss pariing system, but no real swiss system. It works= =20 well for Mac mahon tournaments but not well for swiss systems. The program tries always to equalize the SOS-points of the players. So if= =20 there is an uneven number of players i one group, it pairs down the=20 strongest player of a group (the player with the highest actual SOS-points)= =20 to the weakest player (!) of the next group. This is quite unfair! It first punishes the stronger player (because you ge= t=20 for this round and probably also for the following rounds less SOS-points )= =20 and secondly produces a lot of uninteresting games (strong vs. weak player)= ,=20 which normally would not happen in a real swiss system (there the weakest= =20 player is paired down to the next group). For the next ESC/WOSC a real swiss pairing program has to be used!!! Best regards, Thomas Pfaffel From: Eric macshogi com> Reply-To: shogi topica com To: shogi topica com Subject: Re: Results from Shogi ESC WOSC 2004 in Munich / Germany Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:08:39 +0200 Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: ------------------------------------------------------------------- Save on inkjet and toner, and get free shipping on orders over $50. http://click.topica.com/caacAsfa2i6Ysa7fLNla/Inksoutlet ------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello, I have taken a look at all the photographs, Jochen ! You have done a great job with all the organization. Well done :-) It is no= t=20 an easy task ! Looking at the final table, I was wondering about 2 points about rules and= =20 pairings : 1. qualification rules for the EC Can somebody (Martin ?) remind to me the rules to qualify for the ESC ? One of the points is that players must have a confirmed elo to be eligible= =20 in the 32 happy players. In july 2000, Yoshuyuki Uemura was not allowed to play in the ESC because h= e=20 didn't have a confirmed elo : he had only 6 official games played on the 1s= t=20 july 2000 officlal elo list. On the "last" real time elo list (from the 14 march 2004 :-((, Tashiro=20 Hideki has the same number of official games as Yoshiyuki in 2000. And=20 Tashiro Hideki was allowed to play in the 2004 ESC ! Has this rule been changed since july 2000 or is it just a miss ? 2. Pairing rules From round 6 of the WOSC, all pairings are done using the swiss pairing=20 system. On the final table, it is clear that Gert Scnhider has been deserved by the= =20 actual pairings. Unfortunately for his final place in the tournament, he ha= s=20 been paired twice against a player with a number of points lower than his.= =20 For round 6, he had 3 points and has played a 2 points player. And on round= =20 7, he had 4 points and has played a 3 points player. Playing twice in two= =20 consecutive rounds against a played with a lower number of points is not= =20 allowed in the swiss pairing system. For round 7, another 4 points player= =20 should have been chosen for playing against the 3 points player. This point is really important as it has an influence for the final results= .=20 With a fair pairing system, Gert could have ended one or two places higher.= =20 I have not looked at other examples or other possibles problems in the=20 pairings. Fortunately, the 32 players direct knock out system prevents this kind of= =20 unfair pairings. Best wishes, =C9ric ---------------- Study Shogi and read shogi reportages at http://eric.macshogi.com/ The first Mac OS X Shogi Database Program at http://www.macshogi.com/ Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: ------------------------------------------------------------------- RE-GROW YOUR HAIR STARTING NOW.....Click here for more info! http://click.topica.com/caacxyda2i6Ysa7fLNlf/Medical Hair Restoration ------------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee=AE= =20 Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3D3963 Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: ------------------------------------------------------------------- Need cash fast? Get a $500 CASH ADVANCE overnight! Let=20 YourCashCentral get you the cash you need. http://click.topica.com/= caacxyca2i6YsbnuqMaf/MyOnlinePayday ------------------------------------------------------------------- --^---------------------------------------------------------------- This email was sent to: = shogi-l shogi net EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a2i6Ys.= bnuqMa.= c2hvZ2kt Or send an email to: shogi-unsubscribe topica com For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: http://www.topica.com/?p=3DTEXFOOTER --^----------------------------------------------------------------