From: David J Bush cstone net> Date: 26 aug 2004 Subject: Re: Professional shogi game time management Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: ------------------------------------------------------------------- Save up to 80% on Inkjet & Toner Supplies. 100% Satisfaction=20 Guarantee. Free Shipping on orders over $49. www.inksoutlet.com http://click.topica.com/= caacAsfa2i6YsbnuqMaa/Inksoutlet ------------------------------------------------------------------- Larry Kaufman wrote: > ... > But I would add that even in chess, pros often spend a huge chunk of= > their allotted time on the first move or two after first reaching a posit= ion > outside their preparation. Or, if they find themselves following a previo= us > game but one that they have not studied deeply at home with a computer, t= hey > may spend lots of time on a "known" move for the same reason as given abo= ve > in shogi. Certainly there are exceptions, but in general, chess grandmasters zip thro= ugh the opening moves much more quickly than shogi pros. > So in sum, transpositional frequency and computer strength are the > relevant differences between chess and shogi in the context of opening > preparation. Well, a computer need not be able to play well to be useful. Are shogi database manager programs widely used among shogi pros, the way ChessBase and similar programs are in the chess world? Even with much fewer games being played, this could be a very useful tool, especially if it recognizes when a position has been reached by transposition in a different game. There is also the issue of how much time is taken in the middlegame. If a chess player were to take over an hour for a single move, people might wonder if he had fallen asleep with his eyes open. But this is a rather unfair comparison, since most chess games use faster time controls than the matches Reijer reports on, and chess is arguably a simpler game. I believe all that ultimately matters is, does the quality of play tend to deteriorate when the players are at or near byo-yomi? Has there been any statistical study of this? Reijer Grimbergen wrote: | The move order explanation is very appealing, but I am pretty sure that= =20 | I can find a title match game which not only had a know position after= =20 | the first day, but also a move order that was exactly the same as in a= =20 | game played before which was known to both players. The Kakugawari=20 | opening has been analysed so deeply that it is very likely that this=20 | occured (maybe more than once). Maybe inertia is involved here. No player has a strong motivation to play faster, if he is successful when playing slowly. | BTW, there is a somewhat related issue that I always wondered about.=20 | Suzuki Daisuke is famous for his fast play, often finishing games with= =20 | less than an hour used. He seems to have slown down a little lately, but= =20 | about 6 years ago he was very fast. However, when he became challenger= =20 | for the Ryu-O title against Fujii in 1999, he suddenly slowed down to a= =20 | normal title match pace. I always wondered if he was just following=20 | protocol, wanting to spare the organizers the embarrassment of finishing= =20 | a title match game in one instead of two days or if he really suddenly= =20 | found things to think about. He sounds like a Viswanathan Anand of shogi. :-) Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: ------------------------------------------------------------------- Need cash fast? Get a $500 CASH ADVANCE overnight! Let=20 YourCashCentral get you the cash you need. http://click.topica.com/= caacxyca2i6YsbnuqMaf/MyOnlinePayday ------------------------------------------------------------------- --^---------------------------------------------------------------- This email was sent to: = shogi-l shogi net EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a2i6Ys.= bnuqMa.= c2hvZ2kt Or send an email to: shogi-unsubscribe topica com For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: http://www.topica.com/?p=3DTEXFOOTER --^----------------------------------------------------------------