From: Pieter Stouten shogi net> Date: 26 aug 2004 Subject: Re: Professional shogi game time management Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: ------------------------------------------------------------------- Save up to 80% on Inkjet & Toner Supplies. 100% Satisfaction=20 Guarantee. Free Shipping on orders over $49. www.inksoutlet.com http://click.topica.com/= caacAsfa2i6YsbnuqMaa/Inksoutlet ------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello Shogi fans, Reijer Grimbergen wrote: >>1) Unlike chess players, shogi professionals do not trust their=20 >>preparation. >> This flies in the face of the facts. Pros often come up with strategies they figured out at home, where they could play the ensuing variations out on the board (rather than in their head). >>I have often heard and read that shogi professionals need the >>deep concentration over the board to really understand a >>position. >> Meaning, they cannot concentrate in the quiet of their own homes? So, you are saying they would need the additional pressure of playing with time constraints, in public, against a real opponent? I can to some extent believe that is true for physical sports, but mind sports? Even if it is true for some pros, I would be surprised if this were a general rule. >>2) Shogi openings are much more subtle than chess openings. An edge >>pawn pushed or not, changing the order of certain moves, entering >>the castle in a different way can all have an important impact on >>the position. Richard Sams wrote: >I am rather surprised that Reijer should make these generalizations.=20 >How does he know that chess players trust their preparation and that=20 >chess openings are much less subtle than shogi openings? Unless you=20 >have an equally deep understanding of chess and shogi, such >assertions are little more than prejudices. I would be very >interested to hear Larry Kaufmann's views on the above. > I would be especially interested in what metric one would use to make the comparison and, if one has such a metric, how significant the differences between the games are. I personally think that the relative omplexity of the games may have something to do with it. A simple-minded metric might be the number of different possible (or presumed playable) moves. This might not be true right at the start, but may definitely be true towards the middle game. Maybe games programmers can render a verdict? Another reason may be that Chess is inherently more tactical and less strategic than Shogi (but I would not know how to measure that). Maybe this is too mechanistic, and part of the difference may be cultural in that westerners may make short-range decisions and take it from there (the disastrous things Alan "Bubbles" Greenspan is doing to the American economy are circumstantial evidence ), while Japanese may try to envision the precise final results before committing themselves. Or maybe this again relates to the supposed different balances of tactics and strategies between the two games. Ciao, Pieter Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: ------------------------------------------------------------------- RE-GROW YOUR HAIR STARTING NOW.....Click here for more info! http://click.topica.com/= caacxyda2i6YsbnuqMaf/Medical Hair Restoration ------------------------------------------------------------------- --^---------------------------------------------------------------- This email was sent to: = shogi-l shogi net EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a2i6Ys.= bnuqMa.= c2hvZ2kt Or send an email to: shogi-unsubscribe topica com For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: http://www.topica.com/?p=3DTEXFOOTER --^----------------------------------------------------------------