From: E R webtv net> Date: 22 aug 2004 Subject: Re: Kanji-Less Shogi --WebTV-Mail-14120-804 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: ------------------------------------------------------------------- Save up to 67% on Omaha Steaks + Get 6 FREE Burgers and a=20 FREE Cutlery Set + Cutting Board! http://click.topica.com/= caacvgpa2i6YsbnuqMaa/OmahaSteaks ------------------------------------------------------------------- I am a newbie. Losing one game to a missionary's son and reading some about ShoGi still leave me a newbie. Even so, I see a problem with making the pieces three-dimensional--that it would interfere with the promotion of the pieces. That is why I suggested easily recognizable paintings on the flat pieces rather than going 3-D. You can still flip them over that way. Also I wonder whether ShoGi players wish that they did not have to promote their silver generals but rather had the option of not promoting them. They can sneak backward more easily than the gold generals. Also why not tell us westerners what the real names of the pieces are *and* what those names mean? Jeweled general is distinctive. Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: ------------------------------------------------------------------- Amazing Diet Patch The fastest - Easiest way to lose weight! Try it now FREE! http://click.topica.com/= caacvgta2i6YsbnuqMaf/MyDietPatches ------------------------------------------------------------------- --^---------------------------------------------------------------- This email was sent to: = shogi-l shogi net EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a2i6Ys.= bnuqMa.= c2hvZ2kt Or send an email to: shogi-unsubscribe topica com For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: http://www.topica.com/?p=3DTEXFOOTER --^---------------------------------------------------------------- --WebTV-Mail-14120-804 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Message/RFC822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Received: from smtpin-3111.bay.webtv.net (209.240.204.221) by storefull-3278.bay.webtv.net with WTV-SMTP; Sun, 22 Aug 2004 07:39:15 -0700 Received: from out006.topica-platinum-w.com (out006.topica-platinum-w.com [65.77.104.26]) by smtpin-3111.bay.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix+sws) with SMTP id D8E8AFE01 for webtv net>; Sun, 22 Aug 2004 07:39:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 6390 invoked by uid 0); 22 Aug 2004 14:38:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ms-smtp-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com) (24.29.109.5) by 0 with SMTP; 22 Aug 2004 14:38:59 -0000 Received: from gregory (66-65-73-182.nyc.rr.com [66.65.73.182]) by ms-smtp-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id i7MEct6l013954 for topica com>; Sun, 22 Aug 2004 10:38:56 -0400 (EDT) References: <9688557-1463792126-1092446981 boing topica com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine To: shogi topica com From: Gregory nyc rr com> Subject: Kanji-Less Shogi Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 10:38:59 -0400 Message-ID: <107502792-1463792638-1093185541 boing topica com> Errors-To: boing topica com> Reply-To: shogi topica com X-Topica-Id: <1093185539.inmta008.topica.com.21645.3007761> List-Help: topica com/> List-Unsubscribe: topica com> X-Brightmail: Message tested, results are inconclusive Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: ------------------------------------------------------------------- Amazing Diet Patch The fastest - Easiest way to lose weight! Try it now FREE! http://click.topica.com/= caacvgta2i6Ysbn8jDxa/MyDietPatches ------------------------------------------------------------------- These discussions center around substituting one kanji for another, in this= case directional arrows versus characters, all the time imprinted on flat tiles. Why not introduce three-dimensional shapes, as in western chess? That would make for a more universal language, less bound to any individual= culture. That said, as a reformed chess player who recently went over to shogi, reaching the 2 dan level in 18 months, I adjusted to kanji fairly rapidly, though I still make mortal blunders, for instance, stupidly losing games by= confusing silver for gold generals. I empathize with those who argue that kanji do repel the casual player or the neophyte. The kanji pay homage to the Japanese roots of this magnificent game, and to the aesthetic and competitve culture that has sustained it across the centuries. However, they remain arbitrary, extraneous to the play of the game as such, and in that sense somewhat vestigal to the project, if such exists, of establishin= g shogi as a universal game. In any event, the chief problem is not the kanji, but finding players equally afflicted by the passion for shogi. My heartfelt thanks to the creators and managers of shogi dojo. Greg D'ELIA, New York ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "E R" webtv net> To: topica com> Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:29 PM Subject: Re: Kanji-Less Shogi Sets =3D International Sets ? Where Available= ? Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: ------------------------------------------------------------------- Need cash fast? Get a $500 CASH ADVANCE overnight! Let YourCashCentral get you the cash you need. http://click.topica.com/caacxyca2i6Ysbndxj3a/MyOnlinePayday ------------------------------------------------------------------- Maybe I should agree if there were only one kind of kanji used. Why should I learn two? The former Marine did not recognize the one I had and told me that he could not play me with them. Do the Japanese want to keep the game Japanese? Why not have a set with lines showing the direction the piece moves or one with pictures. I was able to figure out what some of the pieces had to be but not all of them. You don't need to be able to read to recognize chess pieces. You should not need to be able to read hieroglyphics to play Shogi. If someone came up with a nice design carved into the wood as Shogi sets are (that is how it's done, right?) easily recognizable by folks who don't know kanji, do you think that it would catch on? Maybe replace or co-exist with the old Kanji-based sets? I have seen the Leggett book, btw. Am I the only one who feels this way? Thanks for the international set images, but IMO if one wants to replace the kanji then one ought to replace it with something better looking. Would that make it more acceptable? I suppose there is some culture clash here. The players who know much more than you--are they Japanese unwilling to have their game tampered with? Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: ------------------------------------------------------------------- Get a Great Credit Card for You Today You can find a credit card to fit your credit needs. All types of credit cards -- 0% APRs, Rewards, & Bad Credit. http://click.topica.com/caacvgua2i6Ysbndxj3f/411Web ------------------------------------------------------------------- Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: ------------------------------------------------------------------- Save up to 67% on Omaha Steaks + Get 6 FREE Burgers and a=20 FREE Cutlery Set + Cutting Board! http://click.topica.com/= caacvgpa2i6Ysbn8jDxf/OmahaSteaks ------------------------------------------------------------------- --WebTV-Mail-14120-804--