From: paul.smith25 ntlworld com Date: 17 aug 2004 Subject: Re: Re: The myth of the "kanji barrier" Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: ------------------------------------------------------------------- Save up to 67% on Omaha Steaks + Get 6 FREE Burgers and a=20 FREE Cutlery Set + Cutting Board! http://click.topica.com/= caacvgpa2i6YsbnuqMaa/OmahaSteaks ------------------------------------------------------------------- Pieter wrote: > It is easy to prove that the kanji are not=20 > the reason for the decline: I agree that I can't see how the kanji could be the cause of any decline. I= also agree that I think the main factor on numbers so far is the enthusias= m or not of local organisers there at the time. > I do not think that kanji pose an obstacle for getting=20 > people interested either. As people have pointed out, in > order to learn= chess, one must learn to recognize ... I think everyone has been agreeing that the kanji don't present a real seri= ous problem with learning shogi. I think the argument is whether people who= might otherwise be keen on learning to play are put off, however illogical= ly, by the kanji. > Chess players were often curious Some of the chess players I have met are very curious indeed :-) > but their motivation for not really trying out Shogi > typically was that they had invested a lot of time=20 > and effort to get good at Chess and were not willing=20 > to learn another Chess variant=20 I haven't met this sort of people myself, but I can see why some chess play= ers might think like this. There are definitely chess players who are not averse to the idea of some c= hess-related activity that is not actually chess (e.g. I already mentioned = Bughouse as an example). Another example might be chess players who do ches= s problems which are unrelated to improving strength at normal chess (e.g. = the very popular retro-analysis books by Smullyvan). I think sometimes chess players can get interested in this idea that shogi,= Chinese Chess and international chess all came from a common root, and all= solved the problem of making the game more exciting in different ways (che= ss with strong diagonal-moving pieces, shogi with drops, Chinese chess with= few pawns and the king confined in a palace) - giving three related games = each with an interestingly different flavour. I don't know whether this is = an accurate reflection of history or not, but it seems one way of getting p= eople intrigued to see what shogi is like. Anyway, on my suggestion for promoting shogi with a particular type of west= ernised set, I was just trying to make a suggestion (which I concede may no= t work) that could be used at an MSO-type event, making shogi look as famil= iar as possible to chess players. I personally think it would be worth trying (I may try it myself one day if= I ever have time). If someone already tried what I suggested and it didn't= work, that would be very interesting to know. But I don't understand why p= eople are so keen to argue that the idea is wrong in principle or could not= work (without it actually being tried). [In other games, people have tried different things to try to make things e= asier for beginners (sometimes successfully and sometimes not). For example= , I can remember when I never saw strong Go players playing on small boards= , teaching "atari Go", or giving huge handicaps. All these things have cha= nged now, and I think that Go is benefitting from them.] Anyway, it is a shame there will be no shogi at the MSO. I will be there an= yway to play Go and Oware, and I will take a shogi set with me (but which s= ort?). Is anyone else going? Paul ----------------------------------------- Email provided by http://www.ntlhome.com/ Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: ------------------------------------------------------------------- Amazing Diet Patch The fastest - Easiest way to lose weight! Try it now FREE! http://click.topica.com/= caacvgta2i6YsbnuqMaf/MyDietPatches ------------------------------------------------------------------- --^---------------------------------------------------------------- This email was sent to: = shogi-l shogi net EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a2i6Ys.= bnuqMa.= c2hvZ2kt Or send an email to: shogi-unsubscribe topica com For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: http://www.topica.com/?p=3DTEXFOOTER --^----------------------------------------------------------------