From: E R webtv net> Date: 14 aug 2004 Subject: Re: Kanji-Less Shogi Sets = International Sets ? Where Available ? --WebTV-Mail-2506-990 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: ------------------------------------------------------------------- Get a Great Credit Card for You Today=20 You can find a credit card to fit your credit needs.=20=20 All types of credit cards -- 0% APRs, Rewards, & Bad Credit. http://click.topica.com/= caacvgua2i6YsbnuqMaa/411Web ------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you for your reply. I apologize. I was blaming someone else. Please forgive me. I find the inability to tell which piece is which unpleasant, perhaps frustrating. I didn't need to take it out on you folks, though. I figure it is human nature to resent someone tampering with something you regard as distinctive to your culture. I credited such a motive without having enough information and maybe should not have done so even had I had enough information to be sure of it. Boorish of me, hmm? I was impressed with how many people at the topica address were taking the time to reply to me. Have I been posting all my replies to a NewsGroup? Duh. Is a BBS another name for a newsgroup. Thanks for the help and for making sites to help newbies like me. Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: ------------------------------------------------------------------- Save up to 67% on Omaha Steaks + Get 6 FREE Burgers and a=20 FREE Cutlery Set + Cutting Board! http://click.topica.com/= caacvgpa2i6YsbnuqMaf/OmahaSteaks ------------------------------------------------------------------- --^---------------------------------------------------------------- This email was sent to: = shogi-l shogi net EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a2i6Ys.= bnuqMa.= c2hvZ2kt Or send an email to: shogi-unsubscribe topica com For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: http://www.topica.com/?p=3DTEXFOOTER --^---------------------------------------------------------------- --WebTV-Mail-2506-990 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Message/RFC822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Received: from smtpin-3215.bay.webtv.net (209.240.204.240) by storefull-3275.bay.webtv.net with WTV-SMTP; Sat, 14 Aug 2004 03:27:51 -0700 Received: from out006.topica-platinum-w.com (out006.topica-platinum-w.com [65.77.104.26]) by smtpin-3215.bay.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix+sws) with SMTP id 92A3C11DDE for webtv net>; Sat, 14 Aug 2004 03:27:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 7471 invoked by uid 0); 14 Aug 2004 10:05:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web601.mail.yahoo.co.jp) (211.14.15.75) by 0 with SMTP; 14 Aug 2004 10:05:27 -0000 Received: from [219.63.144.55] by web601.mail.yahoo.co.jp via HTTP; Sat, 14 Aug 2004 19:05:25 JST In-Reply-To: <9688557-1463792126-1092446981 boing topica com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp To: shogi topica com From: bogin yahoo co jp> Subject: Re: Kanji-Less Shogi Sets = International Sets ? Where Available ? Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 19:05:25 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <717779094-1463792126-1092479259 boing topica com> Errors-To: boing topica com> Reply-To: shogi topica com X-Topica-Id: <1092479257.inmta006.24835.1903864> List-Help: topica com/> List-Unsubscribe: topica com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Brightmail: Message tested, results are inconclusive Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: ------------------------------------------------------------------- Amazing Diet Patch The fastest - Easiest way to lose weight! Try it now FREE! http://click.topica.com/= caacvgta2i6Ysbn8jDxa/MyDietPatches ------------------------------------------------------------------- I wanted to reply to this series of posts right away but decided to wait to= see what others had to say. Perhaps the fact that your former marine friend is unable to read the kanji= on the pieces you showed him is more of a reflection upon him than upon the= the game of shogi. In reality, although there may be slight differences in the type set used on the pieces, the kanji characters are the same. It is sort of like seeing the letter "A" written in Verdana and Gothic. It looks different but it is still the same "A". The fact that your former marine could not play with the set of pieces you showed him is a little strange. The rules of shogi are the same reagrdless of the type of pieces you use. You could use coins, pieces of paper, buttons etc, etc, etc... for pieces and the rules would still be the same. If you know the rules then not being= able to read the pieces shouldn't be a reason to stop you from playing shogi. There's nothing wrong with making notes on how the pieces move or even your= own sitck on labels with arrows. If it helps you learn how to play and remember how the pieces then go ahead. It seems you want to make shogi more= "international(Western?)" and feel that changing the pieces would be a good= way to do this. But, are statements such as "The players who know much more= than you--are they Japanese unwilling to have their game tampered with?", "You should not need to be able to read hieroglyphics to play Shogi", and "Do the Japanese want to keep the game Japanese? ", really the best way to go about achieving that goal. You seem to be searching for someone or something to blame for the fact that you cannot read the pieces you have. There are plenty of Japanese that enthusically support and promote the growth of shogi all over the world. The Japanese members of this BBS post on this site, hold tournaments, and create webpages specifically designed to increase the interest of non-Japanese in shogi. Perhaps, you are new to this BBS and do not know that, but I think that it's a big mistake to believe that the majority of Japanese shogi players do not care about increasing the popularity of the game outside of Japan.=20=20=20=20 I may be in the minority, but I do not think there is any strong correlation between reading the pieces and being able to play shogi. Maybe for the first couple of times, it can be confusing but is really too hard to remember which piece is which. Out of 20 pieces, there are probably 4 different shapes: (1)pawn,(2)knight,lance(3)silver,gold(4)king,rook and bishop. Golds and kings have nothing written on their reverse side so they should be easy to remember. The other pieces may or not have a different color ink used for the character on their reverse side, but that is irrelevant since all you have to do is make sure all the pieces of the same= type are set with the same face showing when you start the game. There are 9 pawns so they should be easy to figure out. That leaves on 4 pieces out of 20. And, even if you mistake a rook for a bishop, or a lance for a knight, as long as you and your opponent agree to set them up the same way when you start the game, you can play a game of shogi without any problem at all. I do not recommend going to that extreme but once again the rules of shogi are the same regardless of what pieces you use.=20=20 Internationalization goes both ways. In no way do you have to be able to read Japanese to learn how to play shogi. Given all of the resources on the= web, or from English-language shogi books, this is no longer an issue. Probably, quite a few westerners initially had some trouble with the pieces, but given that there are so many strong players in the West, they have obviously overcome it. Even children, who play for a while should eventually be able to make their own mental notes to help them remember which piece is which without being able to read Japanese. Different type sets just add another wrinkle, but certainly one that is not impossible to overcome with a minimal amount of effort. The "ability to read the pieces" is not what shogi is all about. Getting unnecessarily hung up on that point= will not increase your enjoyment of the game. Bill Gaudry __________________________________________________ GANBARE! NIPPON! Yahoo! 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