From: Larry Kaufman COMCAST NET> Date: 26 may 2003 Subject: Re: [ISC Info.] ISC grade & Overseas member system ----- Original Message ----- From: "bogin" YAHOO CO JP> To: TECHUNIX TECHNION AC IL> Sent: Monday, May 26, 2003 5:27 AM Subject: Re: [ISC Info.] ISC grade & Overseas member system > Dear Mr. Niwata, > > I looked at your rating table and while I think it's really of nice of you > and the other members to try and help players improve their shogi, I > believe the rating system you intend to use is way too generous and in the > long run you're going to do more harm than good. > > You say that you are trying you make your rating system different from the > one used on Shogi Club 24 and more like the ones used at local shogi clubs > here in Japan. I have never been to or even heard of a shogi club that > offers a 1300 rated player the rank of 3 dan. In fact, I believe that in > order to achieve a FESA 3 dan or an USSF 3 dan rank a player would have to > consistency perform at around a 2100 or above level. ( I apologize if I got > the exact number wrong but I'm pretty sure that it's nowhere near 1300). > Also, even here in Japan the Japanese Amateur Association 3 dan rank begins > at 2000 points. A rating of 1300 is only consider a 3 kyu according to > their rating guidelines. Without getting into discussion of Mr. Niwata's ideas, my own research indicates that if you want to take Shogi Club 24 rating and translate it into a rating/rank on the Pan-Atlantic scale (which is supposed to be in line with the "average" club rank in Japan), you should do the following: First, move the rating up or down towards 1800 by 20% of the difference. This is to compensate for the fact that there is a greater spread of ratings on Shogi Club 24 than on our system, for reasons that are subject to debate. The prime suspicion is that the fact that players chooses their own opponents on Club 24 causes this spread. Anyway, after making this correction then add 400 points and convert to a rank using our table. This formula implies that the "average" Pan-Atlantic 5 Dan will be 1975 on Club 24, 4 Dan will be 1750, 3 Dan will be 1550, 2 Dan will be 1375, and 1 Dan will be 1225. To be more precise, by "average" I mean a player at the midpoint of the rank, meaning the rating he must have achieved at least once to get the rank. These numbers seem pretty realistic to me, but many people play below the level of their nominal rank, and so these people will be even lower on Club 24. Also, their is a wide range of standards within Japanese clubs, so undoubtedly there are some clubs where Club 24 1300 players might actually be ranked 3 Dan normally. In summary, the Club 24 ratings are indeed pretty accurate, but they represent a scale somewhat intermediate between normal amateur ranks and pro ranks. If they were to modify their rank definitions to correlate with normal club practice, the top amateurs on the system would be around 8 Dan. This is the dilemma, caused by the fact that over the years amateur ranks have gradually inflated, while still being subject to an artificial ceiling at 6 Dan. Larry Kaufman