From: Kazuyuki Iwamoto <iwamoto <at> MY <dot> EMAIL <dot> NE <dot> JP>
Date: 17 jul 2003
Subject: Re: Copyright of game score

Hi all,

Let me clearify the discussion points.
1. Whether shogi scores (of pro or amatur) are to be copyrighted (in Japan)
is not established. No previous dicision by court (perhaps) even though it's
likely that they are not both because in comparison with chess sores and in
lawfully.

2. JSF do not like above idea because it can threaten the financial bases of
JSF.  There were fact that JSF claimed postings of entire game scores of
shogi to a BBS or malinglist. Here is the claim of JSF to a shogi-l (a
japanese shogi maling list).http://www.bug.org/ML/shogi/onegai.txt
 Let me translate JSF's claims part.
Request By Nippon Shogi Renmei
 'At present there is no regal bases in insisting copyright in
scores.Therefore it's quite unwelcome  but we can do nothing legally even if
scores are made public on ML or webpage without (our) permission.  But if we
granted it(openly),our financial bases would be threatened,potentially could
crash (pro) Shogi world itself. This is why we want you to refrain from
posting pro scores.'
 I know same claim was made by JSF to shogi-dicussion BBS in nifty.com of
japan.Another example was a DOJO24'S score books published recentry.Many of
the top players refused  to be published their scores because they are pros
who think their scores are propaty of JSF.
JSF didn't claim posting pro scores on Shogi-l and made public on some
webpages.Why? It's because either they are negligible or considered as
exception (perhaps considerd helpful promoting overseas. )

I honestly feel happy to know evreryone here thinks  all raw scores should
be free.

K.Iwamoto.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Stouten, Pieter [R&D/0467]" <pieter.stouten <at> pharmacia <dot> com>
To: <SHOGI-L <at> techunix <dot> technion <dot> ac <dot> il>
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 12:39 AM
Subject: Re: Copyright of game score


> On Wed 16 July 8:34 AM, Kazuyuki Iwamoto <iwamoto <at> MY <dot> EMAIL <dot> NE <dot> JP> wrote:
>
> > For shogi scores,I believe amatuers's scores are generary not
> > copyrighted. But those of pro's are not.  Those scores are
> > considerd to be a propaty of JSF and its sponsores such as major
> > newpapers who publish the scores.
> >
> Mr. Onogi of NSR explained to me several years ago that the sponsor (often
a
> newspaper) has the right to publish the score before anybody else does.
> Afterwards, everybody else is entitled to reproduce it. Maybe the idea is
> that the game only becomes a historical (and therefore uncopyrightable)
fact
> after it has been published (pretty much like Schroedinger's cat's death
> <g>).
>
> > If you think all shogi scores ARE NOT copyrighted, try publishing
> > pro's sores for free or at a cost. I 'm sure you will get sued by
> > JSF.
> >
> That seems extremely unlikely (see preceding paragraph).
>
> On Wed 16 Jul 08:56 -0400, Larry Kaufman <lkaufman <at> COMCAST <dot> NET> wrote:
>
> > Some people have been publishing Pro game scores right here on this
> > list!  Have any of you been sued or even asked not to do this?
> >
> Nobody seems to have noticed, but SHOGI-L does not only publish
uncommented
> pro game scores, but also games scores with translated comments. I am
> referring to Reijer's "This week in Shukan Shogi" series. Now, the
original
> comments *are* copyrighted, but NSR has given SHOGI-L/Shogi.Net explicit
> permission to publish translations of NSR publications.
>
> Ciao,
>
> Pieter
>
>
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