From: "T.Rogalski" ACCESS-4-FREE COM> Date: 1 aug 2003 Subject: Re: Beginner's Lessons No.1, Getting Orientated: Perspectives on Shogi and Chess Have you even read the above article? The statement about chess being primarily a game of attrition, such as queening pawns, was paraphrased from the article. A better example, from the article, to quote would have been to site the very low incidents of draws in shogi compared to chess. I have read the article several times, and it is obvious that the author shows a high understanding of both games. It is excellent material, and his fascination with shogi is persuasive throughout. Does anyone know who the author is? I believe it was written sometime around 1985-1990. This article was the first and only instance I have ever read where it was stated that the "definition" of shogi means 'the world's greatest game'. Can anyone verify this statement with a second source? Tim Rogalski Shogi Shodan Chess OTB Expert Chess Correspondence Master ----- Original Message ----- From: "bogin" YAHOO CO JP> To: TECHUNIX TECHNION AC IL> Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 9:20 PM Subject: Re: Beginner's Lessons No.1, Getting Orientated: Perspectives on Shogi and Chess > I think the comment you quote about the goals of chess and shogi are way > off and show of a lack of understanding about both games. > > Of course, shogi and chess are both interesting games. They are quite > similiar and also quite different. And, I believe that it may be true that > for some people shogi may improve there chess and for some people chess may > improve their shogi. But, I think that the ultimate goal of any game is the > win and shogi and chess are decided by checkmate or by forcing your > opponent to resign when mate is unavoidable. > > I've played a lot of chess and I've lost a few games even though I had > queened a pawn. It makes no difference how many queens you make in chess, > just as it makes no difference how many tokins you make in shogi. If you > get mated you lose. > > In chess, people resign in position when a pawn is promoted probably > because they feel that they will eventually be mated. Quite possibly a > strong shogi player may also immeadiately resign immeadiately if their rook > or rook or bishop were to be taken without leaving them any compensation at > all. They feel that with best play they will be mated. Both games are won, > especially at high levels of play, due to a combination of small mistakes > that over time add up to make a position unteneable. > > The fact that shogi allows you to use captured pieces does add an exciting > dynamic that chess doesn't have, but it doesn't change the fact that the > games are won by taking advantage of your opponent's mistakes. That is > completely a war of attrition. You wait and wait for your opponent to make > an error and then you take advantage of it. > > Beginners at shogi and chess may feel that you win by capturing the most > pieces, but a 1 dan should be well beyond that naive way of thinking. > Strong chess players, like strong shogi players go straight for the king. > They don't waste time queening pawns unless it actually helps them > eventually mate their opponent. Since in chess, you can't use captured > pieces again the need to queen pawns to mate may be greater than the need > to promote pawns in shogi. But, queening a pawn is only one way to get to > mate. > > Saying that queening a pawn is the main goal of ches is like say that > promoting your rook is the main goal of shogi. They are only a means to the > end. Checkmate is the first and foremost goal of both. > > > Bill Gaudry > > > --- "T.Rogalski" ACCESS-4-FREE COM> $B$+$i$N%a%C%;!<%8!' (B > > The above article does not teach the basic fundamentals of shogi, it > > highlights the merits of shogi over chess from a chess player's > > perspective; such as -- the goal of chess is to queen a pawn and win > > by attrition, while the goal of shogi is, first and foremost, to > > checkmate the opponent's king. > > > > If you email me your postal address, I'll be happy to snail mail you > > a copy. You have to promise to make further copies and distribute > > them to others who show interest in shogi. I believe that the > > article is important enough for someone to post on a webpage, but > > that hasn't happened yet. > > > > In my opinion, the best shogi primer is John Fairbairn's "How to Play > > Shogi". It is 24 pages packed full of concentrated shogi > > information. Ex. page 24 is a raw listing of dozens of shogi > > proverbs -- very useful. > > > > Maybe another Shogi-L member would know if "How to Play Shogi" is > > still available somewhere? > > > > Tim > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! BB is Broadband by Yahoo! > http://bb.yahoo.co.jp/