From: Yoshi Niwata SEA UCATV NE JP> Date: 31 oct 2002 Subject: Re: Oriental players? Yes, I also agree with Richard & bogin's view. Mr. Xu's effort was the main driver for the fast progress in Shanghai. Tarin, It was nice to see you in Tokyo! I also agree on your view. I grew to believe that the difference between Oriental(Japanese) and the other players will disappear in 5-10 years very quickly after the amazing experience in Tokyo Shogi International Forum!! Especially for amateur players like us (1-3 dan), even now, we can easily find out the shogi players internationally on the net. Look forward to playing with you between Thailand and Japan. Sincerely, Yoshi Niwata (Daruma78) > -----Original Message----- > From: The Shogi Discussion List [mailto:SHOGI-L TECHUNIX TECHNION AC IL] > On Behalf Of bogin > Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 9:16 PM > To: SHOGI-L TECHUNIX TECHNION AC IL > Subject: Re: Oriental players? > > > I think I that it's probably a combination of both. I know that my ability > to read Japanese has opened up a completely new world of Shogi literature > that perhaps is unavailable to the average westerner. Therefore, > it is only > natural that Chinese players would also be able to take advantage of such > resources because of the similarities between Chinese and Japanese. > However, the ability to read Kanji will only take you so far. There are > plenty of Japanese players who will never achieve even high kyu status > despite the fact that Japanese is their native tongue. So, I believe Mr. > Sams probably correct is stating that it is due to extremely enthusiastic > nature of volunteers like Mr. Xu that Shogi has taken off so quickly in > China. That is where the main focus of the JSF seems to lie and that is > probably where future foreigner Shogi professionals will come > from. Quite a > few young Chinese have just missed out passing the test for the Shogi > Shoreikai. I'm not sure whether not they were the same Chinese players > who participated at this past Shogi International Forum, but in > order to be > considered for the Shoreikai one has to be at the top of the amateur dan > ranks. So, I agree with Reijer when he says that it's only a > matter of time > before one does break through. > > --- Richard Sams PARKCITY NE JP> $B$+$i$N%a%C%;!<%8!' (B > > on 02.10.28 1:16 PM, Larry Kaufman at lkaufman COMCAST NET wrote: > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Richard Sams" PARKCITY NE JP> > > > To: TECHUNIX TECHNION AC IL> > > > Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 9:48 PM > > > Subject: Oriental players? > > > > > > > > >> In his recent report on the Tokyo International Forum (posted on > > > October > > >> 23), Larry Kaufman made the following comment on the results: > > >> > > >> "The remarkable thing about the results was that not one of the > > >> Oriental players made it to the four-way tie for first! The > > Japanese > > >> and Brazilian (ethnic Japanese) players were thought to be among > > the > > >> favorites, and there were also Oriental players from China, > > Thailand, > > >> and Paraguay. So the results were a great success for Shogi in > > the > > >> West. Furthermore, even among the players with 3-2, the two top > > >> finishers on tie-break were non-Orientals!" > > >> > > >> I am rather surprised that Larry should put all "Oriental" players > > in the > > >> same category. While the Japanese and Brazilian (ethnic Japanese) > > players > > >> have an obvious cultural advantage regarding Shogi, the players > > from China > > >> and Thailand are essentially in the same situation as players from > > the > > > West. > > >> Both countries have their own versions of chess - Chinese chess > > > (shiang-chi) > > >> and Thai chess (makruk) - so they are not much more likely than > > Westerners > > >> to encounter Shogi. The Japanese tend to think that Chinese people > > have an > > >> advantage over Westerners in learning Shogi because they can read > > kanji > > >> (Chinese characters), but I haven't met any players from Europe > > who had > > > much > > >> difficulty remembering or identifying the eight Shogi pieces! > > >> > > >> > > >> Richard Sams > > > > > > I believe that the Chinese have a big advantage over us Westerners > > in > > > terms of being able to access Japanese literature. It's true that > > spoken > > > Japanese and Chinese have little in common, but since they use many > > of the > > > same Kanji I would imagine that a Chinese person could somewhat > > understand > > > what a Japanese magazine or book was saying about a position > > without having > > > to know any Japanese at all. Also, many more Chinese now play > > shogi than > > > all westerners combined, perhaps because they are not discouraged > > by the > > > Kanji. Regarding the Thai written language, I must plead > > ignorance. > > > > > > Larry > > > > > > Larry's argument seems speculative at best. According to Yaichiro Ono > > 6-dan, > > who has made several trips to China to promote Shogi there, the Shogi > > boom > > in China during the last few years has nothing do with the Chinese > > ability > > to read kanji. It is mainly due to the amazing efforts of one man, > > Mr. Xu > > Jiandong, who was present at the Tokyo International Forum. Mr. Xu > > worked in > > Japan for eight years and starting promoting Shogi in China upon his > > return > > five years ago. He said that he encountered quite a lot of resistance > > to > > Shogi at first because people preferred Chinese chess, but through > > his > > efforts about 30,000 Chinese people (mainly children) have now been > > "converted" to Shogi! The Shogi Renmei has recently put more energy > > into > > promoting Shogi in China than the West because it is much closer to > > Japan > > and cheaper (I'm told they also prefer the food!). > > > > Richard Sams > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! BB is Broadband by Yahoo! > http://bb.yahoo.co.jp/ > >