From: bogin YAHOO CO JP> Date: 28 oct 2002 Subject: Re: Oriental players? I think I that it's probably a combination of both. I know that my ability to read Japanese has opened up a completely new world of Shogi literature that perhaps is unavailable to the average westerner. Therefore, it is only natural that Chinese players would also be able to take advantage of such resources because of the similarities between Chinese and Japanese. However, the ability to read Kanji will only take you so far. There are plenty of Japanese players who will never achieve even high kyu status despite the fact that Japanese is their native tongue. So, I believe Mr. Sams probably correct is stating that it is due to extremely enthusiastic nature of volunteers like Mr. Xu that Shogi has taken off so quickly in China. That is where the main focus of the JSF seems to lie and that is probably where future foreigner Shogi professionals will come from. Quite a few young Chinese have just missed out passing the test for the Shogi Shoreikai. I'm not sure whether not they were the same Chinese players who participated at this past Shogi International Forum, but in order to be considered for the Shoreikai one has to be at the top of the amateur dan ranks. So, I agree with Reijer when he says that it's only a matter of time before one does break through. --- Richard Sams PARKCITY NE JP> $B$+$i$N%a%C%;!<%8!' (B > on 02.10.28 1:16 PM, Larry Kaufman at lkaufman COMCAST NET wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Richard Sams" PARKCITY NE JP> > > To: TECHUNIX TECHNION AC IL> > > Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 9:48 PM > > Subject: Oriental players? > > > > > >> In his recent report on the Tokyo International Forum (posted on > > October > >> 23), Larry Kaufman made the following comment on the results: > >> > >> "The remarkable thing about the results was that not one of the > >> Oriental players made it to the four-way tie for first! The > Japanese > >> and Brazilian (ethnic Japanese) players were thought to be among > the > >> favorites, and there were also Oriental players from China, > Thailand, > >> and Paraguay. So the results were a great success for Shogi in > the > >> West. Furthermore, even among the players with 3-2, the two top > >> finishers on tie-break were non-Orientals!" > >> > >> I am rather surprised that Larry should put all "Oriental" players > in the > >> same category. While the Japanese and Brazilian (ethnic Japanese) > players > >> have an obvious cultural advantage regarding Shogi, the players > from China > >> and Thailand are essentially in the same situation as players from > the > > West. > >> Both countries have their own versions of chess - Chinese chess > > (shiang-chi) > >> and Thai chess (makruk) - so they are not much more likely than > Westerners > >> to encounter Shogi. The Japanese tend to think that Chinese people > have an > >> advantage over Westerners in learning Shogi because they can read > kanji > >> (Chinese characters), but I haven't met any players from Europe > who had > > much > >> difficulty remembering or identifying the eight Shogi pieces! > >> > >> > >> Richard Sams > > > > I believe that the Chinese have a big advantage over us Westerners > in > > terms of being able to access Japanese literature. It's true that > spoken > > Japanese and Chinese have little in common, but since they use many > of the > > same Kanji I would imagine that a Chinese person could somewhat > understand > > what a Japanese magazine or book was saying about a position > without having > > to know any Japanese at all. Also, many more Chinese now play > shogi than > > all westerners combined, perhaps because they are not discouraged > by the > > Kanji. Regarding the Thai written language, I must plead > ignorance. > > > > Larry > > > Larry's argument seems speculative at best. According to Yaichiro Ono > 6-dan, > who has made several trips to China to promote Shogi there, the Shogi > boom > in China during the last few years has nothing do with the Chinese > ability > to read kanji. It is mainly due to the amazing efforts of one man, > Mr. Xu > Jiandong, who was present at the Tokyo International Forum. Mr. Xu > worked in > Japan for eight years and starting promoting Shogi in China upon his > return > five years ago. He said that he encountered quite a lot of resistance > to > Shogi at first because people preferred Chinese chess, but through > his > efforts about 30,000 Chinese people (mainly children) have now been > "converted" to Shogi! The Shogi Renmei has recently put more energy > into > promoting Shogi in China than the West because it is much closer to > Japan > and cheaper (I'm told they also prefer the food!). > > Richard Sams __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! BB is Broadband by Yahoo! http://bb.yahoo.co.jp/