From: bogin YAHOO CO JP> Date: 15 dec 2002 Subject: Re: My last comment on the grades issue Dear Mr. Kaufman, OK. I think you're probably right. Like I said, at that time I was only a 1kyu so it's probably a lot easier for them to digest that rank a 5dan rank. Since the highest rank at that club seems to be 4dan then it, rightly or wrongly, they hold the 5dan rank in reserve for special people. Perhaps, someday when I learn to waste less time discussing ranks and ratings and more time improving my shogi I may just be able to find out myself:-). Also, I'm not sure about Mr. Futagami's case and it may be true that a lot of Pros just serve as nominal positions at some clubs. But, I believe that some of them have actual financial interests in some clubs. So, they may be more involved in the actual day-to-day operation than others. But, either way, whatever his position there, I'm sure that the Shinjuku Shogi Center wouldn't risk alienating or insulting Mr. Futagami and/or the NSR by doing something totally against the spirit of shogi. I haven't read much here about the whether Shogi is considered an Art of Sport. In fact,I think that, similar to Chess, non-participants might see it as simply more of a game than either. Whereas, Pro's and top level players might be inclined to view as a combination of Art and Sport. Commentators on TV Shogi programs often express the artistic element of shogi and I have even heard the phrase "Shogi Do" ( The Way of Shogi) once or twice. Also, often, you hear about the physical aspect of shogi and the various activities that top Pro's do in order to improve their fitness levels. But, I never heard anyone actually call Shogi a Sport. I believe that I-Go is also considered the same way here. This is just my own personal opinion but I've never really thought of Chess as a Sport per se. For example, when I was young I liked to play Chess but I also like to play baseball, basketball, and various other sports. I never really got to hung up on that idea. It was only after joined the U.S.C.F. that I became aware that such a debate even existed. I think that the problem for more of image than anything else. Chess had the image of being all mental, perhaps even "nerdy" contests, between "brainiacs". While more traditional sports were often simply viewed as mainly physical contests between "athletes". Or course, both assumptions are faulty since both require a combination of both physical and mental skills to be successful. But, even today you can often here commentators (at least in the U.S.) use Chess analogy when describing the thinking process behind a certain coach's decision. Chess probably will always have the image as a "thinking persons" game. Therefore, I think the U.S.C.F. probably felt that such an image was doing more harm than good and set about to try and change the way people looked at Chess. Actually, I'm not sure if even the rank and file member really worried to much about it. It seemed to me that it was only the U.S. Chess Pro's that felt they were being slighted and penalized because of such an image. I'm not sure of the situation now, but back in the 1980's Tournament Chess was basically not even a blip on the the general publics TVs. It was basically supported by it's membership and maybe had the sponsorship of maybe a few sponsors of Chess-related merchandise companies and perhaps a few companies run by chess enthusiasts. It just wasn't as popular as the other sports as the time and thus didn't get the exposure. So, in comparison to the European Chess world and certain the Chess world of the former Soviet Union, especially from the viewpoint of a Professional Chess player, the American Chess Scene left more than a little to be desired. I don't think that that type of problem exists at all with respect to Shogi here in Japan. The Professional System is very well established. And, the process of becoming a Professional is also tightly monitored. Shogi and I-Go have little or no problem reaching the general public in terms of the printed or broadcast media. And, I think that this has nothing do with whether Shogi is thought of as a Sport or an Art. It just simply has stronger and more organized national federation than Chess has (or had) in the U.S.. I don't think that Japanese Shogi receives direct (financial) support from the Japanese Government other than it's broadcasts on Nihon Television( Japanese Public TV) and the sponsorship of Japan Tobacco( The Japanese Government owns almost 70% of the company by law) for the JT Championship Series. Also, the NSR does get lots of support and sponsorship from newspapers, private TV companies, Beer and Alcohol Companies and other big companies as well. Japanese Sports seem to be less selective with respect to their image than American Sports (Chess) so, in turn, perhaps they are less selective of their sponsors. Perhaps, someone else out there can provide more information about this topic. It would be really interesting to hear what some of the Japanese members of Shogi-L think. Do you feel Shogi is an Art or Sport? Bill Gaudry > No, that's not the point; the people at Shinjuku center know > all about > me. They do indeed normally recognize NSR grades, such as yours; > they just > don't recognize ranks above 4 Dan unless they were earned in certain > major > Japanese tournaments, presumably because the Shinjuku center itself > doesn't > promote beyond 4 Dan. To their way of thinking, 4 Dan simply means > something like "competent player", while 5 Dan means someone who can > contend > for national championships. To me, this is ridiculous; it means that > players recognized there as 5 Dan can probably give bishop or rook > handicap > to their average 4 Dan. But I guess they have their reasons, > probably > related to maximizing revenue. > > > The head Pro at the Shinjuku Club is Mr. Futagami Tatsuya and since > he is > > also the President of the NSR it is indeed truly strange that they > didn't > > recognize your rank. > > > I think that's just a nominal position; the club is run by a > very > strong amateur, Mr. Kaneda (I'm not sure of spelling). > > > Crazy world, isn't it? > > > Not so crazy in this instance. > > Larry __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! BB is Broadband by Yahoo! http://bb.yahoo.co.jp/