From: bogin <bogin <at> YAHOO <dot> CO <dot> JP>
Date: 14 dec 2002
Subject: Re: Intentional misunderstandings?

I agree 100% with Mr. Hollanders. This bulletin board is advertised as
place for open about shogi. We all move to a beat of a different drummer or
as some Japanese might say "the are 10 colors for ever 10 people". If you
can not tolerate such "kind of behavior" then perhaps you in the wrong
place. They are so many different opinions out there and some of those
opinions are very strong. Also, some of us, myself included, may not use
the most diplomatic terms when we try and make our points. In the process
passions may rise a little and small barbs may be thrown back and forth.
But, since I've been reading the posts on this board, I haven't come across
anything so offensive or insulting that I could clearly say "now that was
in bad taste". Isn't it perfectly healthy that we don't all have to agree
all of the time?

Bill Gaudry

--- Hugo Hollanders <H.Hollanders <at> MERIT <dot> UNIMAAS <dot> NL>  $B$+$i$N%a%C%;!<%8!' (B
> Shogi-L is an open forum where people can exchange their ideas. This
> automatically implies that people can different ideas than your own.
> It also
> implies that what you think is obvious might not be obvious to
> others.
> Therefore suggesting that someone intentionally misunderstands your
> emails
> is not only insulting but also proves that you are less open for
> discussion
> and democracy than you claim to be or as you should be being the
> president
> of the FESA.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DANERUD MARTIN [mailto:martin.danerud <at> TELIA <dot> COM]
> Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 2:38 PM
> To: SHOGI-L <at> TECHUNIX <dot> TECHNION <dot> AC <dot> IL
> Subject: Intentional misunderstandings?
>
>
> Dear Hugo and all other shogi friends,
>
> Excuse me for being too harsh, but I have to make the following
> remark,
> since
> this occurs too frequently.
>
> >> There are only in two areas where
> >> the grades or ratings really matter in Europe: the qualification
> to the
> >> European Championship (the best 32 Europeans by means of ELO
> rating) and
> >> the qualification and board order of a shogi team. In tournament
> pairings,
> >> if a McMahon system is not used, the grades and ratings do not
> really
> >> decide if you will be the winner or if you will end up further
> down the
> >> table of results.
>
> > Elo-ratings are important in all tournaments, as these in most
> cases will
> > determine the pairings in the 1st round (and thus indirectly also
> those of
> > the other rounds).
>
> What is this? Is it the informal world championship of intentional
> misunderstandings?
>
> I stated:
>
> 1) There are cases (the 32 qualifiers to the ESC and shogi teams)
> where the
> ELO rating
> REALLY matters. That means, that you will be excluded from the right
> to
> participate,
> that you will not have a chance to play, that you cannot win the
> tournament,
> and that
> you are a non-actor in that drama if your ELO rating is not high
> enough.
>
> 2) There are other cases (excluding the McMahon system), where the
> ELO
> rating
> is just a tool for pairing. When you start the tournament you have
> the right
> to participate,
> you have a chance to play, you can win the tournament, and you are
> definitely an
> actor in the drama. If you are the best player (at the time of the
> tournament), but if you
> do not have the highest ELO rating in the tournament, then you will
> have to
> play the highest rated players
> anyway in order to win the tournament, and the pairing system just
> determines in what
> order you will have to play them (with some minor differences
> depending on
> the number
> of participants etc).
>
> There is a main difference between the cases 1) and 2). As expected
> as a
> reply mail on Shogi-L,
> that had to be commented with an obvious remark. I have grown very
> tired of
> that type of behaviour.
> Please reply to this if you also intentionally misunderstood my
> initial
> e-mail!
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Martin Danerud
>
> FESA president

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! BB is Broadband by Yahoo!
http://bb.yahoo.co.jp/