From: Larry Kaufman COMCAST NET> Date: 12 dec 2002 Subject: Re: Proposal This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_rJFgzthGiG8SU1d9evMQ7g) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message -----=20 From: SECELLE JOHANNES F L A=20 To: SHOGI-L TECHUNIX TECHNION AC IL=20 Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 3:55 AM Subject: Re: Proposal Dear all,=20 Introducing the title of "Absolute European Champion" would inflate = Boris' 2002 title,=20 which, in my humble opinion, is unacceptable.=20 Since the event would take place in 2003, I see no conflict. Furthermore, with all due respect to Gert, Eric, Boris and Stephen, = what about Arend Van Oosten=20 Mike Sandeman, Tony Hosking, Fr=E9d=E9ric Pottier and your servant = (all former European Champions)=20 and of course, Reijer in the first place ??=20 First of all, some other e-mails seemed to misread that I left = out Eric Cheymol, which of course as you indicate is not the case. Mike = Sandeman doesn't compete in shogi events anymore, for some years. Arend = was clearly a real contenter for Europe's top player for many years, but = recently his results and rating have fallen far below the top four I = listed. He would perhaps be the most logical choice for first = alternate, based on his long history as a top European player and his 4 = Dan rank. Reijer could perhaps be included if he indicated a = willingness to return for the event at his expense, but in my view a = national or regional championship should not need to cover expenses for = travel from outside of that nation or region. Also, he is clearly a = Japanese permanent resident and therefore has more chance to improve his = shogi than a European resident, so there is a case to be made for = excluding Japanese residents from such non-Japanese championships. The = other players mentioned are only 3 Dan and have ratings too far below = the top four to have any claim to being the strongest player in Europe. I felt that a 4 player quadruple round robin was the most = efficient way to determine Europe's best player. Including more than = four players would probably necessitate shortening it to a double round = robin, which is of course more influenced by chance. The number of = players must be even to avoid waste of time, and in view of the large = rating gap between the top four and the others (excluding Artem = Kolomeets until he has an established rating), four seems to me to be = clearly the right number. To answer some other email questions, this proposal has nothing = to do with recognizing Gert's 5 Dan rank, though it might provide him = with the opportunity to prove that he is really that strong. I have no = objection to the suggestion that NSR ranks be recognized by FESA if and = only if the player wishes it, though it will look quite funny to list = Gert as 5 Dan and Boris as only 3 Dan, since their recent achievements = are roughly comparable. It was also suggested that if Europe holds such an event, we = would need to do the same over on our side of the ocean. It was = suggested that a tournament with Brazil, myself, and George Fernandez be = held. Of course this would be nice, but we are very far from Brazil, = and any event like that would be very expensive. Also, the Brazilian = players are all Japanese-speaking and/or Japanese born, so including = them in a Pan-Atlantic championship gets away from the idea of deciding = the world's best non-Japanese player. To my way of thinking, it's the = person's native language that is most relevant here. As for the U.S. = representative, if George wishes to contest my right to be the U.S. = representative we could certainly play a match for that position; I = don't think there is any other currently active U.S. player of 4 Dan = rank or strength. As far as I know, Stephen Lamb is not a permanent = resident of Canada and should still be considered European. As to the suggestion that it be done on the internet, of course = the games could be broadcast on the internet even if the event is live. = Since Boris, Eric, and Gert (and Arend if he replaces Lamb) live fairly = close, I don't see the need to have play on the internet, which requires = proctors for each player and may reflect somewhat different skills than = over-the-board play. =20 Furthermore, what would such a tournament prouve ??=20 Unless the result is a tie for first or a near-tie, it should = establish just who is Europe's best player. Does FESA need this tournament to be "credible" ??=20 Not at all; I just think it would be a great event both for the = players and for increasing interest in shogi. =20 Hans Secelle=20 Larry Kaufman =20 =20 =20 =20 --Boundary_(ID_rJFgzthGiG8SU1d9evMQ7g) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

----- Original Message -----
From:=20 MINFIN FED BE=20 href=3D"mailto:johannes.secelle MINFIN FED BE">SECELLE JOHANNES F L = A
To: TECHUNIX TECHNION AC IL=20 = href=3D"mailto:SHOGI-L TECHUNIX TECHNION AC IL">SHOGI-L@TECHUNIX TECHNION= .AC.IL=20

Sent: Thursday, December 12, = 2002 3:55=20 AM

Subject: Re: Proposal

Dear all,=20
Introducing the title of "Absolute European Champion" would inflate = Boris'=20 2002 title,
which, in my humble opinion, is unacceptable.=20
     Since the event would take place in 2003, = I see no=20 conflict.
Furthermore, with all due respect to Gert, Eric, Boris and Stephen, = what=20 about Arend Van Oosten
Mike Sandeman, Tony Hosking, Fr=E9d=E9ric = Pottier and=20 your servant (all former European Champions)
and of course, Reijer = in the=20 first place ??=20
     First of all, = some other=20 e-mails seemed to misread that I left out Eric Cheymol, which of = course as you=20 indicate is not the case. Mike Sandeman doesn't compete in shogi = events=20 anymore, for some years. Arend was clearly a real contenter for = Europe's=20 top player for many years, but recently his results and rating have = fallen far=20 below the top four I listed. He would perhaps be the most = logical choice=20 for first alternate, based on his long history as a top European = player and=20 his 4 Dan rank. Reijer could perhaps be included if he indicated = a=20 willingness to return for the event at his expense, but in my = view a=20 national or regional championship should not need to cover expenses = for travel=20 from outside of that nation or region. Also, he is clearly a = Japanese=20 permanent resident and therefore has more chance to improve his shogi = than a=20 European resident, so there is a case to be made for excluding = Japanese=20 residents from such non-Japanese championships. The other = players=20 mentioned are only 3 Dan and have ratings too far below the top four = to have=20 any claim to being the strongest player in Europe.
     I felt that a = 4 player=20 quadruple round robin was the most efficient way to determine Europe's = best=20 player. Including more than four players would probably = necessitate=20 shortening it to a double round robin, which is of course more = influenced by=20 chance. The number of players must be even to avoid waste of = time, and=20 in view of the large rating gap between the top four and the others = (excluding=20 Artem Kolomeets until he has an established rating), four seems to me = to be=20 clearly the right number.
     To answer some = other email=20 questions, this proposal has nothing to do with recognizing Gert's 5 = Dan rank,=20 though it might provide him with the opportunity to prove that he is = really=20 that strong. I have no objection to the suggestion that NSR = ranks be=20 recognized by FESA if and only if the player wishes it, though it will = look=20 quite funny to list Gert as 5 Dan and Boris as only 3 Dan, since their = recent=20 achievements are roughly comparable.
     It was also = suggested that=20 if Europe holds such an event, we would need to do the same over on = our side=20 of the ocean. It was suggested that a tournament with Brazil, = myself,=20 and George Fernandez be held. Of course this would be nice, but = we are=20 very far from Brazil, and any event like that would be very = expensive. =20 Also, the Brazilian players are all Japanese-speaking and/or Japanese = born, so=20 including them in a Pan-Atlantic championship gets away from the idea = of=20 deciding the world's best non-Japanese player. To my way of = thinking,=20 it's the person's native language that is most relevant here. As = for the=20 U.S. representative, if George wishes to contest my right to be the = U.S.=20 representative we could certainly play a match for that position; I = don't=20 think there is any other currently active U.S. player of 4 Dan rank or = strength. As far as I know, Stephen Lamb is not a permanent = resident of=20 Canada and should still be considered European.
     As to the = suggestion that=20 it be done on the internet, of course the games could be broadcast on = the=20 internet even if the event is live. Since Boris, Eric, and Gert = (and=20 Arend if he replaces Lamb) live fairly close, I don't see the need to = have=20 play on the internet, which requires proctors for each player and may = reflect=20 somewhat different skills than over-the-board play.    =
Furthermore, what would such a tournament prouve ??=20
     Unless the result is a tie for first or a=20 near-tie, it should establish just who is Europe's best player.
Does FESA need this tournament to be "credible" ??=20
    Not at all; I just think it would be a great = event both=20 for the players and for increasing interest in shogi. =20
Hans Secelle

          &nbs= p;    =20 Larry = Kaufman


=20

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