From: Hugo Hollanders MERIT UNIMAAS NL> Date: 12 dec 2002 Subject: Re: Elo ratings and grades Hi Martin, Elo-ratings are important in all tournaments, as these in most cases will determine the pairings in the 1st round (and thus indirectly also those of the other rounds). But you're right: promotions should be based on a system, not on individual feelings about someone's strengths. However, in my view the NSR does have the authority do deviate from any system. Declining a dan-grade as given by the NSR is very impolite, and is not something which should be accepted. As a final comment, having committees and representatives discuss and decide about these matters is fine, but then these committees and representatives should also take up the responsibility of informing people about existing rules. Only then will players have full trust in the existing elo-system. Having rules but not applying them is another example of something which could be called 'disgusting'. Hugo Hollanders -----Original Message----- From: DANERUD MARTIN [mailto:martin.danerud TELIA COM] Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 4:11 PM To: SHOGI-L TECHUNIX TECHNION AC IL Subject: Re: Elo ratings and grades Dear shogi friends, > Discussing the gradings the way we are doing it here, be it by not > accepting it (not "carrying" it officially) or by doubting whether to > accept it or not would be considered extremely rude and respectless. I agree. Shogi-L is good for discussions about shogi and principles, but I do not feel good about discussing the ratings and grades of certain individuals in a forum like this. You do not award grades or establish a rating system based on anyones claims that someone "deserves" a certain grade or rating. That will also move away the focus from the game itself, which, at least in some ideal world, should be more important. It is very important that we have a good system for grades and ratings in Europe and America. Decisions about that shall be prepared by committees and maybe sometimes finally decided by representatives. But when we have that tool availabe, then I hope that the main focus for everyone will be the game of shogi itself. There are only in two areas where the grades or ratings really matter in Europe: the qualification to the European Championship (the best 32 Europeans by means of ELO rating) and the qualification and board order of a shogi team. In tournament pairings, if a McMahon system is not used, the grades and ratings do not really decide if you will be the winner or if you will end up further down the table of results. Then the ratings are just tools. So, please let the FESA and USSF rating committee discuss and decide about the principally interesting questions which have been brought up here at Shogi-L. However, I find it disgusting to discuss whether player A or player B deserves a certain rating or grade. Regard grades and ratings as a tool and enjoy the game. Try to win your games, but do so primarily in order to win the tournaments, improve your own results, or just for the joy of winning. Then good grades and ratings will follow automatically, if we have a good system. Best regards, Martin Danerud FESA President