From: Hugo Hollanders <H.Hollanders <at> MERIT <dot> UNIMAAS <dot> NL>
Date: 12 dec 2002
Subject: Re: Elo ratings and grades

Dear Pieter,

It seems odd that recognizing grades "earned" in Japan is now being
questioned by FESA. In the past these grades were always recognized in
Europe (at least I think they were).

Furthermore, there is NO link between a player's current elo-rating and his
playing grade. Dan- and kyu-grades reflect a past "best" performance, and as
such these will always on average overestimate a player's strength. To put
it more simply, a dan- or kyu-grade is more of an honorary nature, only a
player's elo-rating gives a proxy for his or her strength.

If one thinks otherwise, a close look at the current elo-list proves that
there is no link between dan/kyu-grade and elo-rating. And this can also not
be achieved, unless de-promotions would be introduced (and I don't think
there is anyone who wants this).

In my opinion (and that of the Dutch Shogi Association), if the NSR awards a
non-Japanese player a certain dan/kyu-grade, we should accept this. If only
out of respect to the NSR.

Hugo Hollanders

-----Original Message-----
From: Stouten, Pieter [R&D/0467] [mailto:pieter.stouten <at> PHARMACIA <dot> COM]
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 10:59 AM
To: SHOGI-L <at> TECHUNIX <dot> TECHNION <dot> AC <dot> IL
Subject: Re: Elo ratings and grades

> It seems pointless to not recognize Mr.
> Schnider's achievement.
>
Everybody recognizes Gert's achievement and quite a few people have
expressed the opinion that his grade should be accepted. However, we are
talking about recognition of NSR grades in general, using Gert only as a
clear example. The discussion so far has shown that people attach a lot of
significance to grades. In fact, you yourself demonstrated that by
questioning Artem Kolomiyets 2-dan grade compared to Tao Jiming's 3-dan. If
the correlation between ratings and grades dwindles, people will start to
think that grades (or ratings or both) mean little or nothing. I think we
should avoid that and, therefore, we should be careful with awarding or
recognizing grades.

Ciao,

Pieter