From: Larry Kaufman <lkaufman <at> COMCAST <dot> NET>
Date: 11 dec 2002
Subject: Re: Elo ratings and grades

----- Original Message -----
From: "bogin" <bogin <at> YAHOO <dot> CO <dot> JP>
To: <SHOGI-L <at> TECHUNIX <dot> TECHNION <dot> AC <dot> IL>
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: Elo ratings and grades


> Dear Mr. Stouten,
>
> Thank you very much for the detailed explanation. Almost all of my
> questions have been answered but I'm still confused about why Mr. Schnider
> hasn't been awarded his 5dan rank. If the Japanese Shogi Renmei felt
> strongly enough to award him the 5dan rank based on his excellent result
at
> the recent Shogi Forum than wouldn't that be justification enough for FESA
> to recognize that rank as well? I mean you can't get any better proof than
> having the JSR award such a rank, can you?

     I can't fully agree with this statement, because JSR often awards ranks
for service to shogi (substantial contributions of time and/or money)
without any regard to playing strength.  We already have some Japanese
players on our list with ranks earned for such reasons.  If it is decided to
recognize all JSR ranks on our list, we must also recognize the recent
promotion of Jiro Yoshinari of D.C. shogi club to 5 Dan for his great
contributions to the spread of shogi in the West.  If we only include
promotions earned in actual play, would this include promotions earned in
club play at the JSR club?  How about promotions earned in other clubs, such
as Shinjuku Shogi Center (where Asle Oluffsen earned 1 Dan recently)?  There
are many issues to sort out here.

And, if FESA recognizes the
> ranks of Japanese players awarded by the JSR then why shouldn't it also
> recognize Mr. Schnider's rank as well since it was awarded by the JSR.
>
> Also, with respect to Mr. Kolomiyets, I can perhaps understand your
> eplaination as it pertains to Japanese players but Mr.Jiming as only
played
> 6 games opposed to Mr. Kolomiyets 10 and is only rated 3 points higher.
And
> yet, he is listed at 3dan instead of 2dan.

     This was presumably the rank listed for him by the Chinese shogi
organization.

Of course, you can base ratings
> on the subjective assessments of other players but in Mr. Kolomiyets case
> it's not just anyone who made such claims. He actually beat Mr. Schnider
in
> their individual game and only lost to Mr. Kaufman and Mr. Mirnik. I would
> think that they would be pretty good judges of true shogi strength.
>
     I have no doubt that Mr. Kolomiyets "deserves" a 3 Dan rank, and with a
bit more study will surely be of 4 Dan strength, but I wouldn't want Dan
ranks awarded on my subjective opinion.

> Thank you once again for the explanation.
>
> Bill Gaudry

     Larry Kaufman