From: Larry Kaufman MSN COM> Date: 15 may 2001 Subject: Re: U.S. Shogi Championship ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C0DD32.0ADE0680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message ----- From: Pieter Stouten Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 6:12 AM To: SHOGI-L TECHUNIX TECHNION AC IL Subject: Re: U.S. Shogi Championship --- "J. Andrew Lipscomb" CHATTANOOGA NET> wrote: > by my count, that means that since all four top boards, at least > three second boards, and at least one third board will have 4 or > more points, the fifth-board players were eliminated from > contention before they even started to play. I can imagine someone > being upset about that (but if they were ok with it, then it's not > a problem). > This is true, although in fact one of the fourth board players did q= ualify for the A group. Initially I planned to have three groups (A,B,C)= so the bottom boards would still be eligible for B. However due to popu= lar demand I merged B and C. The objection could be overcome by giving o= nly half a point more for each higher board, but I feared that this would= lead to weak players qualifying at the expense of the top ones. The system employed was basically a McMahon system with the added restriction that pairing occurred strictly within the initial McMahon classes. =20 Thanks for pointing that out. I hadn't realized that this was so. The drawback of any McMahon system is that lower-ranked players (who may well be underrated or in exceptional form) have to score more wins than higher-ranked players in order to secure the same position. In the case of the US Championship this meant that the lower-ranked players could not compete for the championship's title at all. The advantage of a McMahon system is that there are no artificial group barriers, that no "almost-walkover" games are necessary just to separate weaker from stronger players and that the players that perform above (below) their formal rating get to play stronger (weaker) players as the event progresses, overall leading to the best-matched pairing of players. If one wants to have a team match, final knock-out rounds with an unambiguous winner that is decided in the last round and accomplish all of that in one weekend, compromises have to be made. Since no cross-games between initial McMahon groups takes place during the preliminaries (the team match), the distribution and absolute strengths of the different teams as well as the accuracy of the pre-event ratings/grades may play a decisive role in determining the composition of the A group, but (unless a highly underrated player, who plays on board 5 is actually the strongest one present) it is unlikely that that would have affected the final outcome of the championship. Given a choice, I personally might not have integrated a team match into the event, but that may not have been an option. We had an early deadline to leave the building the first day, plus w= e wanted everyone to have chances to play the pros, so there was only tim= e for three tournament rounds that day. This meant either normal prelims= or team match, but not both. Just my $0.02, Pieter Larry

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----- Original Message -----
From: Pieter Stouten
Sent:=  Tuesday, May 15, 2001 6:12 AM
To: SHOGI-L TECHUNIX TECHNION AC IL
Subject: Re: U.S. Shogi Championship

--- "J. Andrew Lipscomb" <ewwa CHATTANOOGA NET> wrot= e:

> by my count, that means that since all four top boards, at= least
> three second boards, and at least one third board will hav= e 4 or
> more points, the fifth-board players were eliminated from<= BR>> contention before they even started to play. I can imagine someon= e
> being upset about that (but if they were ok with it, then it's = not
> a problem).
>

     This is t= rue, although in fact one of the fourth board players did qualify for the= A group.  Initially I planned to have three groups (A,B,C) so the b= ottom boards would still be eligible for B.  However due to popular = demand I merged B and C.  The objection could be overcome by giving = only half a point more for each higher board, but I feared that this woul= d lead to weak players qualifying at the expense of the top ones.

=
The system employed was basically a McMahon system with the added
= restriction that pairing occurred strictly within the initial McMahon
= classes.

     Thanks for pointing that out.&n= bsp; I hadn't realized that this was so.

The drawback of any McMah= on system is that lower-ranked
players (who may well be underrated or = in exceptional form) have to
score more wins than higher-ranked player= s in order to secure the same
position. In the case of the US Champion= ship this meant that the
lower-ranked players could not compete for th= e championship's title at
all. The advantage of a McMahon system is th= at there are no artificial
group barriers, that no "almost-walkover" g= ames are necessary just to
separate weaker from stronger players and t= hat the players that
perform above (below) their formal rating get to = play stronger
(weaker) players as the event progresses, overall leadin= g to the
best-matched pairing of players.

If one wants to have = a team match, final knock-out rounds with an
unambiguous winner that i= s decided in the last round and accomplish
all of that in one weekend,= compromises have to be made. Since no
cross-games between initial McM= ahon groups takes place during the
preliminaries (the team match), the= distribution and absolute
strengths of the different teams as well as= the accuracy of the
pre-event ratings/grades may play a decisive role= in determining the
composition of the A group, but (unless a highly u= nderrated player,
who plays on board 5 is actually the strongest one p= resent) it is
unlikely that that would have affected the final outcome= of the
championship. Given a choice, I personally might not have inte= grated a
team match into the event, but that may not have been an opti= on.

     We had an early deadline to leave= the building the first day, plus we wanted everyone to have chances to p= lay the pros, so there was only time for three tournament rounds that day= .  This meant either normal prelims or team match, but not both.

=


Just my $0.02,

Pieter

     = Larry



=
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