From: "Dr.Eduard Werner" <edi.werner <at> GMX <dot> DE>
Date: 5 mar 2001
Subject: Comments wanted: Shogi ladder changes

Dear members of the Shogi ladder,

when I took over the coordinator's job a few weeks ago, I did not realise
there are so many people who are not  satisfied with the way the ladder is
running now (including myself). The main points of critic are as follows:

1.The ladder position does not reflect the strength of the
  player (and according to the playing mode, never will). It should.
  It would also me more interesting if every player had a chance for playing
  anybody else (maybe with a handicap).

2.There are too few games being played, especially in the higher
  positions which makes it even harder to climb up the ladder: If you
  do not count the several years old game between #1 and #2 (I doubt
  anybody is  playing here, sorry Pieter and Thomas) there are
  only two games running among the top 20. In the lower part (#90 and up)
  almost all of the players have at least one game running. So it seems (as I
  was told) that you start off with a lot of enthusiasm which is wearing off
  soon due to slackness of the opponents.

3.There's quite a lot of people in the ladder who do not play Shogi any more,
  don't answer to email, dragging their games endlessly etc. The ladder
  should be for those who want to play, so a person who has no game should
  not have the right to decline 5 challenges before falling. People with
  non-existent email addresses should be removed from the list.

4.The restriction of challenging 5 ranks above you is practically
  non-existent anyway: If you want to play and restrict yourself to the next
  five above you you would more often than not be w.o. an opponent. That's
  also my personal experience.

5.The time constraints would be more satisfying if both players were given a
  certain amount of time for a certain number of moves, say 10 moves for 30
  days or 20 moves for 60 days. That would give everybody the opportunity of
  saving time for complicated positions, but it would require that the used
  time be logged (an easy thing to do, and usual in Correspondence chess).


Now what could be done:

#2-5 are relatively easy to mend, #1 requires a different sort of
ladder. Although these points of critic are not (at least not all of
them) mine, I think they have all a very good point. After some discussion
with several players on the list (those who responded to my first posting)
I would suggest the following outline:

1. We freeze the current ladder as the first historical shogi ladder
   and take over all players and running
   games into a new ladder, sorted according to grade (or ELO, if
   there). The grade (or ELO) will be the base for a Correspondence
   Shogi Rating (CSR) which you will change according to your Shogi Ladder
   Games (and perhaps other Correspondence Shogi
   Tournaments). Everybody w.o. an opponent will get one automatically
   assigned by some random procedure. The ladder will always be sorted
   according to CSR.

2. You have 45 days for 15 moves; a game is ended when the Coordinator
   gets the kifu. You always get one opponent assigned; but you're free
   to challenge additional opponents if you want more games. (We might put
   an additional flag into the ladderrank indicating whether you're accepting
   further challenges.) You get a new opponent:
   a) when the game against the assigned opponent is finished
   b) after 6 months if you only have one game dragging on for that
   time (whatever is earlier).

3. If the rating of two players differs very much, a handicap can be
   given. The evaluation of the game will then be different, according
   to the rating difference and the handicap.

4. New players w.o. any national or international rating will have
   a  preliminary rating for 4 games. Preliminary rating means
   it will have less influence on the change of their opponents' rating.
   New players with a national rating can choose
   whether to take over their ELO rating, their grade, or nothing at all
   (in the hope to improve more quickly). This is a point I'd really
   need some help setting up the details.

The advantages would be:
1. The ladder position would reflect the players strength (unless they
   don't want to play and keep losing on time)
2. We would establish a Correspondence Shogi Rating.
3. We would play a bit more (I was really surprised there are people
   among the top 20 WITH NO GAME AT ALL and that in the whole ladder
   there are only ca. 10 people who have played as much as I have -
   and I've been on the ladder for only a year and for several months
   I haven't played at all!)
4. The ladder would be more attractive (so I hope)


Please comment on this

Eduard Werner, Shogi Ladder Coordinator