From: DANERUD MARTIN TELIA COM> Date: 28 may 2000 Subject: Coming down to basics Dear Masui-san and other shogi friends, I do not want to have a personal controversy with anyone. If you cannot have a debate about shogi and the future without rushing to fierce personal attacks on me, then it is no use to discuss these matters. I know that the truth is dangerous and I understand that it is difficult having to defend something wrong, but please refrain from personal attacks! I will try to answer your statements and questions below in a pertinent way. >Why don't you show us to organize a strong World Federation of Chess first of all and show us how you >guys are capable to demonstrate the Chess World Championship Tournament. >It seems your understanding about Japanese and Shogi is very poor and you are not yet at the level to >discuss the world championship of shogi including Japanese Pros. I do not have anything to do with the organisation of chess. I cannot as a westerner take a collective responsibility for chess. You as a Japanese do not have to take a collective responsibility for shogi. Let us do the best for shogi together! >Dear Mr. Martin, >You wrote as if you have enough knowledge about Japanese and their culture. However you may not >recognize that many Japanese including myself are very upset by your prejudice and may seriously demand >your apology. I am afraid you may still wonder why I say this. I do not want to upset anyone. I apologize if I have upset you. >Let me ask you following: >1. How many days did you spend in Japan? I have lived for one year in Japan. I have visited the country on four other shorter occasions. >2. Do you speak Japanese? Hai, sukoshi Nihongo hanashimasu. But my knowledge of Japanese can be improved. >3. Which kind of books about Japan and/or Japanese Culture did you read in the last 5 years Some titles: Classic Haiku, A Master´s Selection by Yuzuru Miura Hiroshima Diary by Michihiko Hachiya Japan - kultur och historia (in Swedish) by Chieko Fujio During Haiga - Takebe Socho and the Haiku-Painting Tradition by Stephen Addiss Songs of Gods, Songs of Humans translated by Donald L. Philippi + a lot of course literature and guide books about Japan >4. What is your shogi rating? I am 1-dan. Maybe I should remain silent because of my bad shogi rating... >5. Do you know that "Igo" is much more popular board game than shogi in Japan No, I do not have that impression. Not "much more popular", anyway. But as far as I understand, this is not possible to know correctly because of the organisation of amateur shogi and go in Japan. One may read out the popularity from the number of sold copies of shogi and go magazines, but I do not have the proper statistics there. Is it correct that "Shogi Sekkai" sells around 120,000 copies per month? Maybe someone else can help us here? and there are a few >professional champions of Gaijin in Igo? These Gaijin Champions are highly respected among Japanese. Yes, I know that. >6. Do you know that not only in Japan but also in outside of Japan "Igo" is much more popular board >game than Shogi ? Outside Japan go is much more popular than shogi. That is correct. And I understand that the reason for that is that go has been popularized by Chinese and Japanese all around the globe, and that go can be understood without recognizing some Kanji, which is the case with shogi. >7. Do you know that "Igo" is the most traditional Japanese game as Japan is it's origin contrary to >Shogi? No, I did not know that. Now we have entered the really interesting field of game history! Even though the historical evidence for the early history of these games is vague, I have to say that you seem to have an interesting (and unique!) hypothesis in this scientific field. From China there is an archeological evidence of a 17x17 stone go board dated prior to 200 AD found in Wangdu County in 1954 and now in Beijing Historical Museum. It is generally believed in Japan that go was introduced there in about 740 AD, by one Kibi no Makibi, who had been sent as an ambassador to the Chinese court and learnt the game there. However, go was probably known in Japan about 100 years before Kibi no Makibi. Still, I have not heard of any scholar in the world who claims that Japan is the origin of go (even though that is the Japanese name of the game; weiqi in Chinese). Shogi, on the other hand, was, according to all historical sources, invented in Japan with the final addition of the piece dropping rules in the 15th century. Of course, the chess game itself was not invented in Japan, but probably reached Japan as the Chinese xiangqi during the Tang dynasty. >8. Then how do you explain that there are Professional Gaijin Champions and they are on the top of >Japanese News Papers and Magazines as a hero in Japan and that they are highly respected in Japan? I suppose that it is only natural that there are strong Korean and Chinese go players, since the game is popular in those countries as well. >9. Do you know that in Judo, most of Japanese, including myself still remember and respect the olympic >champion from Netherlands. Do you know that majority of Japanese are not regrettable at all to >introduce Judo to overseas? >Do you know that there are more than 1,000 Dojos in outside of Japan and more than 100,000 gaijins are >playing Judo and it is still popular both in Japan and overseas? Do you know that most of Japanese are >not regrettable at all that Judo became international supports? I know that, and it is good that you and a lot of other Japanese enjoy the popularisation of judo. The question in Aono´s contribution was that a judo match can be won in other ways than "ippon" nowadays, and that contradicts the judo nature of waiting and striking explosively, according to Aono. Now, a judo match can be won because of a passive opponent, and that is said to favour non-Japanese sportsmen. >10. Do you know the reason why none of Sumotori (including Japanese Sumotori) use their own real name >and using "Shikona" instead? No. I know that the "Shikona" is a professional fighting name, which the new "Rikishi" is choosing, influenced by the tradition of his "heya". The names often take attributes from the power of nature. But I do not know if there are any other concealed reasons. >11. Do you understand why I feel so sad reading your statement about Japanese saying "Real reason is >following? >To this question, I can answer that you have a lot of misunderstanding about Japan and Japanese >calture. No, I cannot really understand why you feel so sad, Masui-san. I have talked to hundreds of shogi players (professional as well) in Japan about the popularisation of shogi. And, you know, I am one of many westerners who really love Japan and the game of shogi. And I have made a great effort to the popularisation of shogi in Sweden. So, as a natural consequence of that, I have to find out the reason why shogi has not been better spread than until now. The main reason is probably the kanji characters on the pieces. But since I, together with a majority of the western shogi community, think that the appearance of the shogi set is beautiful and traditional, we want to promote the shogi game exactly the way it is! However, then we also need support from the organisation of shogi in the world. That is the reason why I bring up the question of the necessity of a World Shogi Federation and a real World Championship of shogi. Then, as an additional step of thought, I have to find the answer of the question why we do not have a World Shogi Federation and a real World Championship of shogi. I also have to find out why anyone can work and argue against it. The answer which I have then got from almost all my Japanese shogi friends is the one I presented in my earlier contribution: when it comes down to basics, there are suspicions that something will be changed and that the traditions will be violated. But I hope that all westerners are prepared to accept these traditions. >Dear Mr. Martin, >I must insist that you must learn a lot about Japan before you present this kind of statement. >Please do not influence many innocent people with your prejudice. I only write what I know and what I have heard from my Japanese sources. Could it simply be that there are different opinions among Japanese people? >Dear Mr. Martin you wrote that >This thought is well spread in Japan. Then imagine the embarrassment if, say, a black person from >Nigeria became the World Champion of shogi! OK, maybe it would do if the person was given a Japanese >name, like the Hawaiian natives who are sumo Yokozuna, and then include him in the professional >circuit. But maybe that would not be that realistic with a black person. >You are absolutely wrong again. Please do not mislead innocent shogi friends. >If African or American, even European became World Champion of Shogi, I guarantee you that he becomes >national hero in Japan. He will be on the cover story of all kind of Japanese Media and will be truly >respected as a great hero. >How do you explain the fact that in Igo, these Gaijins are using their own real names without any >problem in Japan? Because there cannot be a surprise to the Japanese that there are good Korean and Chinese go players. >It seems that you introduce Sumo without knowing Shikona-Sumo Name. All of the Sekitori (regardless to >Japanese or Foreigner) use "Shikona". >Do you know that the only running game that Japanese had a chance to win the gold medal in Olympic? It >was Marathon and it is even today. Do you know the fact that in Tokyo Olympic (almost 30 years ago, not >today), Mr. Abebe, Ethiopian (indeed a black person from Africa) won the gold medal passing by Mr. >Tsuburaya, Japanese runner at the last lap in Tokyo Olympic Stadium 400 meters before the goal. >Do you know how Mr. Abebe was treated in Japan for many years when Japan was not modernized like today? > >The African runner who beat the Japanese Hope in Tokyo Olympic became hero in Japan for many years. >Ethiopia became very popular in Japan with great respect and even today many Japanese older than 40 >years will chose Ethiopia as their most favorite country among African countries due to the bear foot >runner, Mr. Abebe who beaten Japanese before the goal. OK. I agree with you that I should not have mixed my earlier contribution with any notions to race. This part was not based on facts. I apologize. But if we are honest, both of us, we know that there is a lot of racism all over the earth, and I am happy that you will work against it together with me. And I hope that from now Koreans, Europeans, Africans, Arabs, and Ainu people will be treated fair in Japan like elsewhere on earth. Masui-san, let us work together for the popularisation of shogi! But please discuss the questions regarding a World Shogi Federation and a real World Championship of shogi in a pertinent way. Best regards, Martin