From: Larry Kaufman WIZARD NET> Date: 1 jun 2000 Subject: Re: Many Thanks At 03:33 PM 6/1/00 -0400, you wrote: Dear all, > >This is my first time to write here in years, but I would like to make >some >comments on the World Shogi Champion in Armonk, NY. > >First of all, I would like to extend my sincere thanks to Masui san, >Hayashi san, Ogihara san, and many other organizers of New York Shogi >Club, >who worked so hard and made this fascinating event possible. I was >honored >to be there, not only for playing games, but also for meeting wonderful >players around the world (such as Tony, George, Doug, Larry, Marc, >Christoffersen, Bjerke, to name a few) and discussing the future of >Shogi >popularization. >Now, regarding the organization and management of the tournament, I >totally >agree with Doug and many other people, claiming that the tournament was >a >total success, at least for everyone who were there. >However, there is always a room, in almost everything, to improve. In >order to do that, we should discuss constructively but not abstructly. >So, >why do not we have a feedback survey, for instance, on those who >attended >the tournament over emails? We can develop questionnaires and >distribute >them to the participants around the world. By that, we will probably >have >some ideas on how they evaluated the event especially in terms of >tournament format. I think that this will be a good suggestion for the >future tournament. > >Again, it was the most impressive tournament I have ever attended in my >25 >years of Shogi life, and it was very nice to meeting you all from all >over >the world! >Thank you > >Best > >Chiaki Ito >Bangkok, Thailand > I agree with all you have said, and would like to add that in my opinion the players who finished first and second (you) were most likely the two strongest in the event. However, I hope you don't mind my using you as an example of why the format is not ideal for deciding who should be second, third, etc. Both you and Arend Van Oosten won all of your games up until only four players remained. Then, you defeated Mark Theeuwen while the ultimate winner Egoshi defeated Van Oosten. In the final round playoffs, you lost to Egoshi while Van Oosten defeated Theeuwen. So you both won the same number of matches, and both defeated Theeuwen but lost to Egoshi in the final two rounds. You received the second prize because you had the good fortune to play Theeuwen before Egoshi, while Van Oosten played them in reverse order and so got third. Clearly your records were the same, but due to the chance factor of your placing in the chart you got the higher prize. Actually this was justified, because you did defeat van Oosten in the team matches and also made a better score in the Pro-Am event. But these were not the reasons for your getting the second prize; it was just the luck of the draw. So although in this case justice was done, it could just as easily have been the other way around. It seems to me that if the organizers like the idea of requiring a perfect score (other than prelims) for the winner, it would be possible to devise a format that is essentially a knockout as far as determining the winner, but is a Swiss in that everyone plays the same number of rounds (with optional byes) and is still in the running for a top prize after a single loss. I think that it is the importance given to the timing of a loss that strikes me as unreasonable; if you can still win a prize with one loss, why should it matter when it occurs? Perhaps the reason for the use of knockout in Japan is the feeling that only first place really matters; could there be a cultural difference here? In western chess tournaments, other places than first are also considered significant, and any system that leaves them to chance would not be popular. If this idea interests the organizers, I would be happy to propose details on request. Again, I believe that without exception everyone enjoyed the event immensely, and we have nothing but the highest praise for everyone who made it possible. Thank you, NY Shogi Club! Larry Kaufman