From: Sam Sloan ISHIPRESS COM> Date: 11 aug 2000 Subject: Re: Shogi Impasse I prefer my own explanation of the rules of shogi (which Pieter Stouten banned us from discussing here some years ago). My version of the rules, which is at http://www.samsloan.com/shogi.htm , states in part: "This works like this: each player counts the pieces in his possession. Each rook and each bishop, whether promoted or unpromoted, is worth five points. Every other piece or pawn is worth one point. The kings don't count. The total number of points in the game is 54. (Work this out).The rule is: If a player has more than 30 points, he wins. If a player has less than 24 points, he loses. If a player has anywhere from 24 to 30 points, the game is a draw and must be replayed." As I recall, there was some debate as to whether 24 points was enough for a draw, or only 23 points. This may have turned on the issue of whether kings count. Basically, if one side has three of the four major pieces, thereby giving him 15 points, plus half of the remaining pieces, which is 17 points, he has 32 points and therefore wins. Since there are 54 points in the game, if one side has 32 points, then the other side has 22. Pieces in hand do count. The arbiter will usually be called to rule in these situations. The players will rarely agree on the exact point when the game becomes a draw. The impasse occurs when all the pieces of both players are on the opponent's side of the board, not just the kings. It is very difficult to force an impasse. Usually, these games are very long, often lasting for hours, and one side checkmates the other before the impasse situation is reached. In all my years of playing shogi, I have only had one game where a draw was declared on the grounds of impasse. Sam Sloan At 09:32 AM 8/11/00 +0200, Pieter Stouten wrote: >I forward the attached mail on behalf of Michael Breier > aol com>, who does not subscribe to SHOGI-L. If you have >answers to his questions, please respond to him directly. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >On an English-language webpage describing an Impasse, the following >two statements are written: > >---- > >IMPASSE >There are very rare cases in which both players have moved their Kings into >the opponent's camp and there is no prospect of a checkmate. This situation >is called "Impasse". >Impasse is adjudicated by counting pieces: each major piece counts as 5 >points, the minor pieces as 1 point each. A game ends in a draw when both >players have 24 points or more: one player loses when he has under 24 points. > >In SHOGI, a "piece" refers to any unit, including the Pawn. The Rook and >Bishop are called major pieces; the other pieces, with the exception of the >King, are called minor pieces. > >http://www.jwindow.net/LWT/SHOGI/INTRO/shogi_intro.html > >---- > >My questions are as follows: > >1) Is the tally only for pieces on the board or does it also include pieces >that are in hand? > >2) Since the King is called neither a major nor a minor piece, is it >therefore not tallied in the final count of pieces? > >3) Is an Impasse declared subjectively? That is, solely by means of mutual >consent and discretion of an arbiter--or are there concrete guidelines to >call an Impasse? In other words, how is one to know for sure when Checkmate >is no longer possible for either player? > >4) Can one intentionally force a draw by creating an Impasse? > >5) Can it happen that both players would have under 24 points each? > >6) Does an Impasse occur automatically when the two Kings have entered each >other's territories? > >Thank you very much. > >Sincerely, >Michael Breier > >