From: Bob W VOICENET COM> Date: 16 apr 2000 Subject: Re: Shogi Rules (Re: 2 funny things happened) At 01:17 AM 4/12/00 -0400, Sam wrote: > >The four dan spectator was correct. He was not wrong. > On what authority do you say this? >Even though he was a spectator, he was right to point out the illegal >position on the board and to end the game. > >I also believe that Ray's opponent knew all along that the position was >nifu. Out of Japanese politeness, he did not point out that Larry's son had >forfeited the game. Instead he waited for Ray to realize it himself. > >It is almost inconceivable that a four-dan player would let the game go on >for several moves and not realize that the position was nifu. > >Larry does not say whether the 4-dan players involved were American or >Japanese, but since Larry himself is almost the only American 4-dan player, >it is reasonably likely that both the spectator and Ray's opponent were >Japanese and knew the etiquette of shogi better than Larry does. > >Sam Sloan > > Although Sam does raise an interesting possibility, it is sad that the purpose of the note seems only to attack Larry personally. And of course that the tool he uses is to demean Larry's knowledge of etiquette is ironic. Miss Manners would have a field day here .... ALl this talk of rules versus etiquette is a little annoying (and please excuse if this point has been made elsewhere - I have many more notes to wade through!). When I was much younger, I took some books out of the library to teach me which fork to use first and so on, what the 'etiquette' was on asking a girl on a date and so on. My point is this - etiquette is learned behavior too. I don't much care if what is published is entitled 'rules' or 'etiquette', but please publish something :-) I have no desire either to make illegal moves, nor do I desire to insult my opponent (unintentionally). This is going to be an increasing necessity as shogi becomes more global, no? Is there a handy glossary I can use for some of these conversations? It's frustrating watching a conversation talk about 'nifu' and not understanding anything until someone points out what 'nifu' means. At this point I know how the pieces move ... and probably not much else. To my knowledge there is not a club close to me. I feel if I were to show up at a tournament, I'd be lost. How does one overcome all this uncertainty (especially when there appears to be so much argument about what the rulews really are?