From: Larry Kaufman WIZARD NET> Date: 14 apr 2000 Subject: Re: At 10:39 AM 4/14/00 +0900, you wrote: >It's a little difficult to understand all the concern about when to "claim" >games. Why would anyone want to? As far as I know one enters a shogi >tournament in order to play shogi and have fun, claiming games isn't playing >shogi and is likely to cause an atmosphere of strained relations unconducive >to fun. When I have played in tournaments in various shogi clubs in Japan, nifu or time forfeit has always resulted in the game ending immediately without discussion. We're not talking about "claiming" games for silly reasons, but if you allow opponents to take back nifu or overtime moves, why not blunders, or even slightly dubious moves? If the game is purely for fun, this is fine; many Japanese do take back poor moves in such games, and I never object. But if it's a tournament, even for a prize of a book or the like, one should know the consequences of breaking the rules. If some people claim forfeits and others don't, the winner is less likely to be the strongest player. I'm not arguing for any particular rules (I would not object to a rule that allows the retraction of nifu), but I favor clear rules that apply to everyone. If my opponent makes a nifu I press the clock and point it out, most >players change their move. A king that can be taken is a different case, the >player will resign. It seems that rather than being considered illegal, (for >amateurs), nifu type moves are viewed as invalid, whereas a king left in >check can be taken so is not an invalid (illegal) move in the same sense. But many amateurs will immediately resign on making a nifu, and many will expect you to do so. So unless the rules of the club or event confirm your interpretation, you are handicapping yourself to offer nifu retraction, and may also be embarrassing your opponent. >A final small point, the player giving the handicap is usually the winner in >what would in non-handicap games be drawn situations. I have seen this rule used, but in my experience this is not the "normal" rule, in Japan or in the west. Personally I favor giving white credit for his missing pieces in Jishogi (this is the usual rule), a win if the jishogi score is tied (also a common rule), and a win in repetition sequences (but this is a rather rare rule). When giving fairly large handicaps, white often is forced to just wait for the opponent's attack, so if black chooses to "pass" white may have no way to avoid repetition, and so it is logical to award such a game to white. But unless the club or event specifically states such a rule, it should be assumed that repetitions are draws to be replayed. Curiously, the second handicap game I ever played with a pro (Aono) ended in an endgame repetition and was deemed a draw. Larry Kaufman >Michael Sandeman. >