From: "J. Andrew Lipscomb" <ewwa <at> CHATTANOOGA <dot> NET>
Date: 12 apr 2000
Subject: Re: Checkmate and other rules. Re: Illegal moves.

> Hugo Hollanders wrote:
>
> >Let me just point out these are the recommendations made by the
> >Renmei. So in my opinion there is no discussion possible as to
> >their validity.
> >
> Well, the problem is that NSR also categorically says that an illegal
> moves loses the game. That is incompatible with only issuing warnings
> in case of swap-captures. Maybe, swap-capture is actually an
> inappropriate move rather than an illegal move (along with covering
> one's pieces in hand, slamming a piece against the side of the board
> before playing it, etc.). Since several people (Hugo and Sam among
> them) had clearly indicated that without a doubt NSR's word is law
> where Shogi rules are concerned, it seems logical to ask NSR to
> resolve the ambiguity.

At a certain point, I think you run up against a fundamental point here.
The way shogi is played in Japan depends heavily on a population of
players brought up in Japanese traditions. If the game does become
popular in the West, there will be a large base of players who were not.

I agree that the Renmei is *the* authority on the rules of the game
itself. However, there are conditions in the West that may require
certain circumstances to be handled differently. Illegal moves are a case
in point. What constitutes a valid proof that an illegal move has been
made? Without an observer, and presuming that the position itself does
not prove the case (as it does for the two-pawn rule--that is what nifu
means, right?--or a piece dropped/nonpromoted where it can never again
move), a written record seems to be the only way to prove it. Memories
can deceive either or both players.

Come to think of it, the existence of a nifu does not 100% prove *who*
made the illegal move!  I can conceive of a player erring by dropping a
pawn facing the wrong way.... Granted, this is about as likely as a
Western-chess player moving a pawn back to his first rank, but after
watching kids unable to mate with two queens against the lone king, I
can't exactly say it would *never* happen.

That is why I think there needs to be a rules document setting down the
Renmei's rules in proper English/French/Dutch/etc., along with those
additional rules necessary to run tournaments under the conditions
existing in the West.  (The World Amateur rules serve their
purpose--providing appropriate rules for a high-level tournament--but
they do not generalize.  For example, handicap tournaments should be
allowed.)

I would like to get a copy of the Renmei's rules booklet (if it's
available in English or French).

As to the example of castling by touching the rook first, not all
countries agree on the rule.  In the USA, the move will be accepted. In
Canada, if the opponent claims it, the move will be disallowed and you
will be required to move the rook under touch-move.