From: "Majewski, Thomas" <Thomas.Majewski <at> WABCO-AUTO <dot> COM>
Date: 12 apr 2000
Subject: Re: Checkmate

As far as I remember from Peter Blommers article in the Dutch shogi magazine
"81", he is also talking about this subject. If a king is in check, but does
not move out of check or moves into check (this includes checkmate of
course), this is deemed an illegal move losing at once. From this I deduct,
that you can survive giving checkmate with a hanging flaf on the clock,
because you do not have to take the king with your next move. But delivering
checkmate and your flag is falling exectly than might be another story. Does
everybody agree to this?

All the Best,
Thomas Majewski

> -----Original Message-----
> From: 'Marc Theeuwen' [SMTP:Marc_Theeuwen <at> AMSINC <dot> COM]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 12:48 PM
> To:   SHOGI-L <at> TECHUNIX <dot> TECHNION <dot> AC <dot> IL
> Subject:      Checkmate
>
> >> In Europe, the first detected and claimed result counts. So if you find
> yourself
> >> checkmated, (which in itself is legal) and your opponent has run out of
> time,
> >> you still can
> >> claim the game.
>
> >Interesting, and not as I know it from chess. I can't follow. If you are
> >checkmated, then your opponent has finished his last move (although he
> might
> >not have had the time to press the clock afterwards), so the game is
> over.
> >It should be hard to prove that the time was up *before* he finished the
> mating
> >move. According to my chess tournament experience, mate ends the game and
> you
> >can't claim a win according to your opponent having run out of time. In
> >5-minutes games, even a mate-in-one position is still won when you run
> out of
> >time. This one I never liked since it's not clear whether the player
> would see
> >and give the mate, but according to me, when you finish your move and
> it's mate
> >(really mate, not the start of a mating sequence) then the game is over
> and
> >can't be reclaimed.
>
> Officially the game is only finished when one of the kings is taken. It is
> not
> an illegal situation that your king remains to be in check (there is no
> rule
> that forces you to say "check" to your opponent). Therefore a checkmate is
> theoretically not sufficient to win the game; the player giving the
> checkmate
> also has to be able (i.e. have sufficient time on the clock) to take the
> king.
> Ofcourse, it is bad taste to keep on playing in case the opponent has an
> easy
> tsume, but in case of a sudden death game with the opponent flag almost
> falling,
> you still can win the game on
> time.
>
> Regards,
>
> Marc Theeuwen


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