From: Sam Sloan <sloan <at> ISHIPRESS <dot> COM>
Date: 12 apr 2000
Subject: Re: Shogi Rules (Re: 2 funny things happened)

At 12:38 AM 4/12/00 -0400, you wrote:
>>      Some of these rule issues are far from academic.  At the same time as
>> the Ohio shogi qualifier was having its nifu problem, our own qualifier in
>> Washington had one too!  In our case, my son Raymond, in a difficult
>> position against a 4 Dan, answered a back-rank rook check by dropping a
>> pawn, not noticing that he had another pawn much farther up the file.  His
>> opponent, despite his high rank, somehow failed to notice the nifu and the
>> game continued for many moves with both players unaware.  Then, one of the
>> other players (also 4 Dan) happened to notice it and pointed it out, not
>> knowing that it was improper for him to do so.  As TD, I didn't know what
>> the proper ruling should be, though my feeling was that the game should
>> continue since it seemed unlikely that the nifu would have been claimed
>> without interference.  Fortunately, before I made a ruling, the 4 Dan
>> player offered to continue, perhaps not feeling entitled to the point.  He
>> won anyway, so there were no consequences, but like Doug I wonder what the
>> proper ruling would have been?
>
>In Western chess, the rule would be to back the game up to that point.
>If it
>did not appear that there was any effect on the game, I would probably rule
>continue.  If there was, I think your only option is to replay the game.
> (I
>might add that for a player to make 4dan without learning such a basic point
>of etiquette suggests we have work to do in teaching those matters.)  In any
>case, the player pointing it out should be severely warned not to do it
again--
>if he did then repeat his offense, expulsion would be warranted IMO.
>

The four dan spectator was correct. He was not wrong.

Even though he was a spectator, he was right to point out the illegal
position on the board and to end the game.

I also believe that Ray's opponent knew all along that the position was
nifu. Out of Japanese politeness, he did not point out that Larry's son had
forfeited the game. Instead he waited for Ray to realize it himself.

It is almost inconceivable that a four-dan player would let the game go on
for several moves and not realize that the position was nifu.

Larry does not say whether the 4-dan players involved were American or
Japanese, but since Larry himself is almost the only American 4-dan player,
it is reasonably likely that both the spectator and  Ray's opponent were
Japanese and knew the etiquette of shogi better than Larry does.

Sam Sloan