From: Benjamin Good ANDREW CMU EDU> Date: 8 feb 1999 Subject: random shogi stuff Excerpts from mail: 3-Feb-99 Re: big shogi by Colin Paul Adams@COLINA. >>>>>> "Benjamin" == Benjamin Good ANDREW CMU EDU> writes: > > Benjamin> matboard, w/ abbreviation and name of the piece at the > Benjamin> top and a diagram of the piece movement, like those in > Benjamin> the hodge manuals, at the bottom (like we're really > Benjamin> going to memorize all the japanese symbols for all the > Benjamin> pieces and how they move; i also put yellow and blue > >Why not? It's not very difficult, provided you work you're way up the >games in order. I learned the Tenjiku pieces (already knowing Chu), in >less than a day. (OK - you don't have to remind me that I kept >forgetting how the Chariot Soldier moved). > well, i don't have access to the japanese characters, for one thing (anybody know of a web page that has them? i can't even remember where i got the rules to begin with...). we didn't work our way up thru the games. also, my opponent (the only person i know willing to play big shogi games w/ me), is not as serious a player and is not interested in learning all the pieces. so that's one of the advantages of my set, is that if i do find somebody new to play with, they can play right away. Excerpts from mail: 3-Feb-99 Re: big shogi by Colin Paul Adams@COLINA. >Playing Chu, I prefer two minutes per move, using about half the time >to figure out where my Lion is going to move under various >circumstances. When we played the tournament in Muenster, we had 90 >mins plus 1 minute byo-yomi each. This was definitely NOT enough time, >not even for me (and I was consistently the fastest player). I think >the ideal time limits for serious Chu play would be 150 mins byo-yomi >each - which fits a playing schedule of 1 game per day. But this means >you really need a week in which to run a tournament, which is >difficult to manage, given the low number of Chu Shogi players. > i don't have as much experience as colin, but i also don't see playing a solid chu game in less than 120 minutes. Excerpts from mail: 6-Feb-99 The larger Shogi variants by Colin Paul Adams@COLINA. >DAI > >Dai Shogi differs from Chu in three significant aspects: > >1) A larger board. >2) Lions can be freely exchanged. >3) The addition of several non-entity pieces (such as Knight, >Cat-Sword, Evil Wolf, Violent Ox - have I missed any?). > >Feature 1) affects Duration, Opening Tension and Tactical Complexity, all for >the worse. > >Feature 2) diminishes Tempo to the point where it is almost >insignificant. > >Feature 3) unnecessarily makes the problem of deployment of the pieces >more awkward, for no good reason. > >Feature 2) can be eliminated by introducing Chu Lion rules. but I can >see no compensation for the defects of features 1) and 3). > >In short, there are no valid reasons for playing Dai rather than Chu >(other than doing it once to see for yourself), but this does NOT hold >vice-versa. actually, for some people, the reasons you give may be reasons for some people to play dai. some people like a slower-paced game. the large amount of space b/n the two sides gives the players a lot more time to reorganize and redeploy their forces. the fact that the board is that much larger and yet the new pieces are on the weak side raises a new difficulty in protecting your entire zone from your opponents promotions. i don't like dai as much as chu either, but i don't think you should write it off so quickly. my initial reaction to it was extremely negative (after my first game i predicted i would never play it again), but my opinion of it has since been raised quite a bit, mostly as a result of actually seriously playing it. Excerpts from mail: 6-Feb-99 The larger Shogi variants by Colin Paul Adams@COLINA. >TAI > >Probably a certain draw. Otherwise Maka-Dai-Dai but much more so. i'm not sure i see why tai would be a certain draw. on the other hand, i've never finished a game. incidentally, i haven't been saying much about tenjiku, since i don't have much to add to what colin says, but just so it doesn't look like he's a lone voice, i will add that tenjiku is a cool game, and unlike all the other shogis. Excerpts from mail: 6-Feb-99 Re: The larger Shogi variants by Luke Merritt HOTMAIL COM >I'd have to have a physical set of these large shogi variants to >actually decide if I could play them or not (I plan on buying a tenjiku >and maybe a tai set soon), but I think that the larger the chess-type >game, the more playable it would be if lots of faerie powers were thrown >in. I've been toying with the idea of a 100x100 shogi variant, and I >feel that it would be necessary to include several pieces with very >bizarre movements, like capturing from a distance or range jumping hook >movers in order to make the game even appear to be playable. Of course, >maybe all that is because I'm rather eccentric. you'd better have a big room to set up your 100x100 board in. remember that bizzare movements can be the pitfall of a chess/shogi variant, pieces that are too difficult to visualize and see can detract from the game. and pieces that are too powerful and overly dominant can ruin it. but if you come up w/ a good game, i'll play it with you. Excerpts from mail: 7-Feb-99 Re: The larger Shogi variants by Patrick Davin LYRA VEGA. >Now then, who will be the first in Earth history to complete a game >of taikyoku shogi? (Hint: not me). i still need the complete rules. Excerpts from mail: 7-Feb-99 Re: The larger Shogi variants by Colin Paul Adams@COLINA. >I don't find they sacrifice playability at all (you just have to find >a space where you can set them up for a month or three) - for >instance, I have played the Europa series extensively in the past. My >point is these games are interesting from the start, unlike Tai. i think tai is interesting from the start. you have this big army, what are you going to do with it? how are you going to deploy your forces to control the most space, to limit your opponent the most, what's the most effective way to do it? where is your opponent going, how are you going to respond? Excerpts from mail: 7-Feb-99 Re: The larger Shogi variants by Colin Paul Adams@COLINA. >I'm thinking of buying a Tai set, to investigate it. I'm looking round >to see where I'd put it. I guess I'll have to re-arrange the >furniture. if i had $300 to spare, i'd think of buying a tai set. maybe next year... Excerpts from mail: 7-Feb-99 Re: Chu shogi rules update by Patrick Davin LYRA VEGA. > >Ummmm, > >Rikard's interpretation is correct. > >The lion may move to an "A" and return to its starting point, >resulting in a "pass". This clever maneuver is called "jitto" >and is available regardless of what pieces surround the lion. > i'm curious as to your source. my only source is the hodge manual, which doesn't say either way, i was tending to agree w/ colin's interpretation, altho the hodge manual also left me w/ the impression that the inventors never really considered the problem. a long time ago i asked if the lion could igui if he was pinned, i never got a definite answer, altho it is extremely likely to be important in a game. that's all for this post, ben