From: Colin Paul Adams COLINA DEMON CO UK> Date: 3 feb 1999 Subject: Re: big shogi >>>>> "Michael" == Michael Vanier BBB CALTECH EDU> writes: Michael> I was mostly thinking about the feasibility of email Michael> play. My problem with really huge shogi variants is that Michael> there's so much going on that I despair of being able to Michael> make even a superficial analysis of the position unless Michael> I've got, say, an hour to spare (I imagine the same would Michael> apply to Tenjiku shogi, but then I've never played it). No it doesn't. I would guess I would average about three minutes per move playing a really serious game of Tenjiku Shogi. This relies on the many hundreds of hours I have spent analysing the game, so I am familiar with many of the themes that arise. Playing Chu, I prefer two minutes per move, using about half the time to figure out where my Lion is going to move under various circumstances. When we played the tournament in Muenster, we had 90 mins plus 1 minute byo-yomi each. This was definitely NOT enough time, not even for me (and I was consistently the fastest player). I think the ideal time limits for serious Chu play would be 150 mins byo-yomi each - which fits a playing schedule of 1 game per day. But this means you really need a week in which to run a tournament, which is difficult to manage, given the low number of Chu Shogi players. Michael> However, your point is well taken: the games weren't Michael> designed for this mode of play. In fact, if what George Michael> Hodges has written is correct, they weren't really Michael> designed to be played at all, just to be marvelled at. Michael> They certainly succeed in this goal :-) Personally, I find it hard to marvel at Tai, because I don't have a board. And trying to figure it out on a computer screen is just too tiring on my eyes. Michael> Here's a question: in The Book of Tenjiku, all the games Michael> listed are quite short (of the order of 100 moves per Michael> player). Is this typical for Tenjiku games? My They can vary tremendously in length. The shortest I have seen was a 6-move affair. I once played three 27-move games in one 6-hour session. The latest example game I have concocted for the second edition of my book is over 300 moves long. Michael> impression is that Chu games average about 150 moves per Michael> player. It's curious that a larger game would end My estimate (based on personal experience) is that most Chu games last about 90 moves. 150 would be very long indeed. Michael> faster, although of course Tenjiku has much stronger Michael> pieces. It's a much faster-paced game. The game can end at any time, if one player makes a slight mistake. But if both players are very careful, it can last a very long time. Only if all 4 Fire Demons are exchanged in the opening (most unlikely, though it can happen), will the game fit in to an interpolation of a Chu-Dai-DaiDai graph. Tenjiku Shogi is NOT to be missed. You simply have to play it to get the feel. The easiest way to do this, is to play live on the Internet - using a GFH set, Steve Evan's program, or make your own set like Ben did. -- Colin Paul Adams Preston Lancashire