From: mark schreiber ACCESSHUB NET> Date: 11 apr 1999 Subject: Re: Report 9th CSA Computer Shogi Championships Has anyone proposed that a human play the winner of the computer Shogi tournament? This will give a more current and direct evaluation of how well the best computers play Shogi against humans. We would not need to speculate based on computer versus computer games or computer versus a human played over a year ago. Are computers allowed to play shogi in human tournaments? Of course a computer would not win a human tournament, but it would evaluate how strong or weak the computer plays. Mark Schreiber -----Original Message----- From: Reijer Grimbergen ETL GO JP> To: SHOGI-L techunix technion ac il techunix technion ac il> Date: Wednesday, March 31, 1999 9:01 PM Subject: Re: Report 9th CSA Computer Shogi Championships (LONG) >Larry Kaufman WIZARD NET> writes: > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Reijer Grimbergen ETL GO JP> >> To: SHOGI-L techunix technion ac il techunix technion ac il> >> Date: Wednesday, March 31, 1999 2:24 AM >> Subject: Report 9th CSA Computer Shogi Championships (LONG) > > >>> Hi everyone, >>> >>> Here is the report on the 9th CSA Computer Shogi Championships and all the >>> games from the finals. > >> Thanks for the excellent report. Two questions which I hope you can >> answer for the benefit of all those interested: > >> 1. Which of the competing programs (particularly the final eight) are >> commercially available in a form that can be used by Westerners running >> Windows 95 or 98? Of these, are they in Japanese only, or in English, and >> how does one obtain them? So far, only Sekita has advertised itself thru >> the Shogi Discussion List, as far as I know. > >There are commercial versions of Kanazawa Shogi ("Kanazawa Shogi"), YSS >("AI Shogi"), Shotest ("Otosan no tame no 2" and "Saikyo no Shogi"), >Eisei Meijin ("Eisei Meijin"), IS Shogi ("Todai Shogi"), Kakinoki Shogi >("Kakinoki Shogi") and Morita Shogi ("Morita Shogi"). There are probably >more around, but these are the ones we have at our lab and run under >Windows 95/98. None of them are in English, but almost all of them will >run under English windows. English versions of the programs do not have >a high priority, since the market it too small and there is quite a fierce >battle going on for the Japanese market. It seems that Oxford Softworks >(where Jeff Rollason's Shotest program is part of), is planning to bring out >an English shogi program by the end of the year. But as I said, it is not >a top priority so there is no date to look forward to. > >Anyway, if you can figure out which buttons to click in the Japanese programs, >it is not too difficult to play against these programs. One of the things >on my "to do" list, is to put a description of the menus of the programs >on my webpages (and post them to Shogi-L). It might take me a while to get >around to this though... > >> 2. Have there been handicap games between professionals (or strong Amateur >> players) and any of the strong programs that would help to establish their >> strength more accurately? If so, what handicap, who was the opponent, and >> what result? > >One and a half year ago, at the Game Programming Workshop in Japan, Iida >Hiroyuki (5-dan) played six piece handicap games against Kakinoki Shogi >and Morita Shogi (maybe one other program, although I do not remember the >details). I think Kakinoki Shogi won a game and lost one. Morita Shogi won >a game because of a very long mate that Iida overlooked in a won position. >It was already quite late. > >There has been a television program about two years ago where YSS played a >strong amateur from Osaka with time handicap and was beaten very badly. It >seems like most people feel that it is still too early for serious encounters >between man and machine. > >> Thanks in advance, Larry Kaufman > >Reijer Grimbergen