From: Toshiya Kawakami LEAD DION NE JP> Date: 8 apr 1999 Subject: Re: Query Hi, from Japan. Toodle wrote: >Quick question: was is the Japanese word (or rather, the English >spelling for the Japanese word) meaning "decisive battle?" I thought >this forum was a good a place as any to post this. Literal translation for "decisive battle" is "ketteiteki na tatakai". The "tatakai" is more spoken but stilted for "battle" here, and the "issen" is more written but may be often used at shogi. The "decisive" is translated to "ketteiteki na" at most situations. I guess (1) or (2) in followings for "decisive battle". (1) "ketteiteki na issen", "tenka wakemeno tatakai", or "ten'nouzan" Both "tenka..." and "ten'..." are historical expressions, and mean "the very important battle that decide mastery (of the countries)". If you use "decisive battle" as a important game (or games), especially a championship match(es), you can say "ketteiteki na issen" ("issen" is "a match" or "a game" here) or "ketteiteki na taikyoku" ("taikyoku" is "match against a person"). For example, "The match, Pipski - Habu, is a decisive battle for the cup." is "Pipski - Habu sen ga ketteiteki na issen desu.", or "Pipski - Habu sen ga ten'nouzan desu.". (2) "ketteiteki na tejun" or "ketteiteki na kyokumen" The "tejun" means "sequence of moves" or simply "moves". And the "kyokumen" means "position(s)" or "situation(s)". If you use "decisive battle" as a sequence of some decisive moves in a game, you can say "ketteiteki na tejun". For example, "The 25th thru 32nd move was a decisive battle (in this game)" is "25te kara 32te ga (kono ikkyoku deha) ketteiteki na kyokumen deshita." The "na" can be omitted. When omitted, the expression becomes a written style. (3) "ketteisen" This must be a wrong(!) translation. It's just like Japanese to mistake so, because "sen" uses a kanji (Japanese letter) that means "battle". The "ketteisen" is rightly used for "candidate matches for championship" (chousensha ketteisen) or for "play-off" (yuusyou ketteisen). I'm not so familiar to shogi terms, and want to hear other opinions. Regards, -- Toshiya Kawakami email: kawakami lead dion ne jp