From: teruko PO2 NSKNET OR JP> Date: 2 apr 1999 Subject: Re: variant preference Dear Reijer, Thanks for your thought provoking reply to my mail. Mini shogi and judkins shogi appear to be small versions of shogi, whereas micro and kyoto appear to be genuine variants and games of quite distinct character. I'm investigating their history at present but it seems certain that they are modern creations. I think there is no danger of a draw in kyoto shogi, in micro shogi there are times when the first wave of fighting ends inconclusively and for a while it can be difficult for either side to initiate a new offensive, however a decisive result is likely as the eventual result. (I am making these statements from very limited experience, I only heard of kyoto shogi last week, nevertheless I believe them to be true). I think that such games may have been created by shogi players throughout the period of modern shogi, they are only now coming to be preserved on account of greater dissemination of information and increase in the number of enthusiasts. The larger variants have already died once and are perhaps not really suited to our present social condition. It's possible that a forced win for one side or the other can be more easily demonstrated in these small variants but as they aren't serious tournament games or challenges for software designers I dont think anyone is really looking for one. A game such as noughts and crosses is very simple yet provides hours of entertainment to children. Mancala type games are reputedly suited to computer thinking but not to human thinking, their solubility doesn't interfere in any way with their amusement value. The least that can be said for micro and kyoto shogis is that they can be fun for shogi players. Apart from chuu and tenjiku I dont know if anyone is playing the variants larger than regular shogi, their appeal maybe more philosophical than practical. Micro and kyoto both require a kind of thought that has similarities to but remains quite different from the thinking required by shogi. This (perhaps) gives these games appeal for shogi players whilst keeping them sufficiently perplexed to hold their interest. About the aesthetics of symmetry, I think it's primarily to do with habit, as a chess player I was disturbed initially by the change from oppositional to rotational symmetry when I began playing shogi, as a mancala player I am used to the 8x4 boards of bao and mweso and find other sizes distracting. Kyoto shogi has a disturbingly naked feeling due to all the pieces being on the back rank in the initial position. I dont suggest that these or any other game be flawless however the survival of shogi maybe akin to the international status of english language and not at all indicative of superiority. That's it for now, best wishes from Michael.