From: Pieter Stouten <pieter.stouten <at> DUPONTMERCK <dot> COM>
Date: 25 may 1998
Subject: Non-shogi-related postings revisited once more [2]

Dear SHOGI-L members,

I think I should let this discussion go on for a while until we start
losing subscribers or too many people object to it.

I think I should make one thing clear: I did not object at all to Sam Sloan
informing SHOGI-L members of a fraudulent Ishi Press (California) site. I
myself have violated a rule of SHOGI-L and another list by informing people
of the (then impending) Communications Decency Act as I feared it
threatened the very existence of mailing lists. Fortunately, I was wrong.
Information on a fraudulent Ishi Press (California) site is relevant, but
Sam's tirade over it and the litany of details on the perceived or real
crimes of  Hartland Snyder c.s. and on his court cases are largely
unrelated to shogi. That part of his mail could have easily been replaced
by a few well-chosen URLs.

Assume, however, for a moment that I was wrong to object to Sam's posting.
He could have just mailed me back explaining to me why he thought his
entire posting was relevant. In the end, I might even have agreed with him.
Instead, he chose to air all his gripes about me on SHOGI-L. That clearly
violates both SHOGI-L rules. Not because it is me who is criticized. Not
because I do not like his opinions, but because the posting is not about
shogi and represents an ad-hominem attack.

In case you were wondering about my views of Ishi Press (California), I
have only had bad experiences with them. Largely as a result of my
interactions with them, I have removed all information about Ishi Press
(California) from the following files a while back:

http://www.halcyon.com/stouten/shogi-soft-eqp.html
http://www.halcyon.com/pub/users/stouten/shogi/shogi-l/shogi_books.txt
http://www.halcyon.com/pub/users/stouten/shogi/shogi-l/shogi_address.txt

The only address to Ishi Press I provide on my shogi site is to Ishi Press
(Japan). When people ask for shogi software, I have also stopped referring
them to Shogi Master (sold by Ishi Press (California)) a while ago. Yes,
you guessed right, although my style of expressing my views is different, I
agree with Sam that Ishi Press (California) is a bad apple.

Alexander Nosovsky made the following points:

>First, he can be subscriber from other name and other Internet address
>like.... <at> usa <dot> net remailer.
>
Yes, and there is little I can do about it. SHOGI-L is the equivalent of a
private club, and people that are not welcome there (because they violate
the rules) should not come. But if they force entry, who will stop them?

>Second , if you want to control all mail you can make digest of Shogi-L
>mail - for instanse, one time per day or after 5-10 mails together and
>control by yourself this digests.
>
See, I don't want to control which (individual) mails get sent. So far,
appealing to people's own good judgement about what belongs on SHOGI-L and
what does not, has worked. I hope (maybe against better judgement) that
that situation will return.

Finally, the remark I made about transferring responsibility for the
day-to-day operation was not made in jest. I would continue to own the
list, but would not be involved in any matters of policy unless asked to do
so. Volunteers are indeed welcome. Right or wrong, that offer does not
extend to Sam Sloan. Alternatively, SHOGI-L members could elect an arbiter,
who (together with me or instead of me) can decide on possible violations
of SHOGI-L rules.

Thanks,

Pieter Stouten
<pieter.stouten <at> dupontmerck <dot> com>