From: Matt Casters <matt <at> NETPOINT <dot> BE>
Date: 14 oct 1997
Subject: Re: GSDB 2.6.1

------ =_NextPart_000_01BCD8B6.04E07E40
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Hello Shogi-L and Arnoud,

Arnoud wrote:
>Staying away from Beta software generally is a good idea. ;)
>But you don't seriously expect the final IE 4 to be up to (sun) standards,
>do you?

A lot of people are trying software like the Java Shogi Server
, Patrick's Shogi viewer or GSDB these days.  It's a lot of fun to
explore these free shogi services.  Now, 30%-40% of these people
are using the Microsoft Internet Explorer and are going to be
disapointed when things don't work as they should.
If Sun hadn't sued Mircosoft for doing a bad job in implementing
Java in the FINAL release of the Internet Explorer 4, I would
have said nothing.  But, the fact of the matter is that indeed
Java programs don't run as it should on the Internet Explorer 4.
(see below this mail)

>And what will you do then?
>Write for "standard" Java, and tell all your gsdb users to sitch to Netscape?  ;)

There is only one version (or standard) of Java.  I checked if GSDB
would run on Internet Explorer 3 and this seems to be the case.
The only explanation I can think of (and this is also Sun's conclusion)
is that Microsoft introduced bugs into the Java implementation.
(read: made it incompatible somehow)
As you can imagine, this is a hot topic in Java-land. (news:comp.lang.java.programmer)

>Or write Java that'll run on all implementations?
This seems impossible as it is impossible to know how Sun implemented Java.
Furthermore, how can I be sure that Microsoft doens't change their Java virtual
machine again in the next release of IE ?
Clearly everybody sees that I can't.

In the mean time, I can only recommend that you use Netscape or keep your old
Internet Explorer 3.02.

Hope this helps,

Matt






      SUN SUES MICROSOFT FOR BREACH OF JAVATM CONTRACT
         <http://java.sun.com/announcement/>



Microsoft fails Java compatibility tests for Internet
Explorer 4.0

PALO ALTO, Calif. -- October 7, 1997 -- Sun
Microsystems, Inc. today announced that it has filed a
lawsuit in U.S. District Court against Microsoft
using Sun's Java Development Kit that run on
MacOS, UNIX and Netscape Navigator may not run on Internet Explorer 4.0.

"Sun's first responsibility as stewards of the Java technology is to preserve
the significant investments that Sun and hundreds of companies have made. We
are required to take this action on behalf of our licensees, the Java industry
and Sun's shareholders," said Alan Baratz, president of Sun's JavaSoft division.

Baratz added that for the past six months and up until 6 p.m. Sunday, September
28, Sun worked diligently with Microsoft in hopes of convincing them to abide
by their agreements.

According to the complaint, "Rather than comply with its contractual
obligations, defendant Microsoft has instead embarked on a deliberate course
of conduct in an attempt to fragment the standardized application programming
environment established by the Java technology, to break the cross-platform
compatibility of the Java programming environment, and to implement the Java
technology in a manner calculated to cause software developers to create
programs that will operate only on platforms that use defendant Microsoft's
Win32-based operating systems and no other systems platform or browser."

The complaint further alleges, "In particular, defendant Microsoft has
deceptively modified the Java APIs. . . By secretly adding Win32-specific and
other APIs to the Java class libraries . . . Microsoft has acted to induce
independent software developers who use SDKJ unwittingly to write programs.
. . expecting to achieve cross-platform functionality. . ."

"We examined all of our alternatives and felt that we had no choice but to
pursue litigation," said Michael Morris, Vice President and General Counsel,
Sun Microsystems, Inc.

The suit was filed today, October 7, 1997 at United States District Court,
Northern District of California, San Jose Division.

The complaint specifies that Sun is seeking "preliminary and permanent
injunction enjoining Microsoft. . .from using the Java Compatible logo; from
doing directly or indirectly any acts or making any statements that are likely
to cause confusion, mistakes or deception in the marketplace as to the
compatibility of IE 4.0 and SDKJ 1.1 with Sun's Java technology . . . from doing
directly or indirectly any acts that are likely to diminish the value of the
Java Compatible logo. . ."

"The Java brand has enormous value in the industry. When users see `Java'
they know they can expect Write Once Run AnywhereTM, Safe Network
Delivery, and Smart Card to Supercomputer Scalability," said Baratz. "We are
obligated to ensure that Java will always mean those things, and the industry
fully supports that philosophy."

Sun noted that Windows users can access applications written for the Java
Programming Environment by using Netscape Navigator. In addition, Java
developers can bundle the Java Performance Runtime for Windows in their
applications. Using this product, developers can deliver high-performance,
fully-compliant Java for Windows.

For More Information

Sun Microsystems, Inc.

Lisa Poulson
408-343-1630
lisa.poulson <at> eng <dot> sun <dot> com

Susanne Vagadori
650-786-8281
susanne.vagadori <at> corp <dot> sun <dot> com



-----Original Message-----
From:   Arnoud Kleynjan [SMTP:akleynjan <at> IXONET <dot> NL]
Sent:   Tuesday, October 14, 1997 2:40 PM
To:     SHOGI-L <at> techunix <dot> technion <dot> ac <dot> il
Subject:        Re: GSDB 2.6.1

Matt

> P.S. GSDB is a program written in Java and it runs on most platforms.
> Just stay away from Internet Explorer 4.  Microsofts Implementation of
Java
> is not up to standards.  GSDB should run hapilly on Netscape Navigator
version
> 3 or 4. (tested on Windows95 and Linux)

Staying away from Beta software generally is a good idea. ;)
But you don't seriously expect the final IE 4 to be up to (sun) standards,
do you?

And what will you do then?
Write for "standard" Java, and tell all your gsdb users to sitch to
Netscape?  ;)
Or write Java that'll run on all implementations?

Arnoud

------ =_NextPart_000_01BCD8B6.04E07E40
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BCD8B6.04E07E40--