From: Jonathan Tisdall SN NO> Date: 21 mar 1997 Subject: Re: The Art of Shogi At 14:57 21.03.97 JST, Reijer wrote: >Yesterday I saw Tony's book "The Art of Shogi" for the first time and even >though I only looked through it for about fifteen minutes, I would like to >add my voice to the discussion. Let me begin be saying that I was impressed. >It seems to me to be only second to Aono's "Better Moves for better Shogi" >as far as non-Japanese books on Shogi are concerned. However, no discussion >is served by only praise, so here are my other comments: > >1) I am not too wild about the notation system that is used in the book. This >is one of my pet peeves, I know, but I still think that Shogi is best served >by having as few as possible notation systems. Tony seems to have used yet >another different hybrid, which I do not think is very wise. In my opinion >either a direct translation of the Japanese notation to text should be used >(76P 34P 22B+ xS and so on) or the common Western notation (P7f P3d Bx2b+ Sx2b >and so on). I rather like the notation system, as far as the number pair goes. I always found it terribly disorienting reading japanese and then western notation, and prefer the japanese system of using only numbers for coordinates (since they did it first). Having the piece come first strikes me as a logical and unobtrusive way to westernise it, but that is minor. I *don't* like the use of "'" for drop. I am used to "*", but that isn't my real quibble with ', I just find ' hard to see. The definition gives "'" which I thought was an empty pair of quotes at first. A cosmetic note to consider for future editions - A list of symbols should probably come on a separate page, early. Using a triangle for "intending" for example, works with studious chessplayers, but might be obscure for others. (I mean, I overlooked the symbol definitions and didn't mind, but it might confuse others) >2) The terminology used is not always in tune with daily practise. For example, >I have not heard the term Fortress in Europe for almost ten years, but in the >book it is still used instead of the more common "Yagura". On the other hand, >the Bear-in-the-hole is consequently referred to as "Anaguma". This is alright >by me (I am in favour of using more Japanese terms in Shogi), but I know that >at least in Europe the word "Bear-in-the-hole" is much more common than the >word "Fortress". Added to this point, I am wondering why "Anaguma" is >consequently put in cursive script, while "Ishida" is not. > >3) Good as the opening part of the book is (it even has chapters on the obscure >bishop head's pawn push!), it seems that opening joseki has gotten a little >too much emphasis. One can argue that many of the concepts in openings and >early middle game are also used in other stages of the game and I guess that by >analysing the professional games in depth one might also pick up other Shogi >ideas. However, I still think that middle game and end game tactics are >discussed too briefly. Even professionals tend to write most about the opening, >but I think this is very unfortunate, so I see this as a missed chance to make >"The Art of Shogi" a work for generations of Shogi players to come. As a novice, I find the opening the most incomprehensible phase of the game. Perhaps Sam Sloan is rightish about its weight in practical Western play, but it is baffling. Tsume are easy to understand. Joseki easier. Openings, hard. I don't know if this is because of a heavy chess background. My impression is that chess strikes beginners the same way. But, looking to the future, more material on joseki would be a very welcome thing. At the moment I am doing a lot of writing about classifying certain chess patterns. I wonder how much of that has occured with tsume. My impression (I may be deluded) is that many joseki have names that one could compare with some tactical motifs seen in chess. I don't know if there are shogi equivalents of the Arabian mate, Morphy's mate, etc. If there are such classical mating patterns in shogi, it would be a nice way to further knowledge about this aspect of the game. I thought it was fantastic to have handicap theory covered. Larry Kaufman has stressed this traditional path of learning, and it is great to have this material in one place. >5) My final problem with the book is that it seems rather expensive. This was >of course unavoidable, and I aim this comment more at the publishers of Shogi >books in Japan (specifically the Renmei), who do not seem to be interested at >all in making translations of Japanese books available to the starved >non-Japanese players. I thought it was cheap! Er, reasonable. With such a limited print run especially. You often pay a lot more for less with chess books, and they have a bigger guaranteed market. I would have preferred a roomier look, with more white space and more diagrams, but assume that would have simply added to the cost. However, in response to Reijer's point and other recent queries on the list, I belong to that group which would immediately buy translated works, being starved. Perhaps I shouldn't admit to thinking TAoS cheap... >Apart from the points above, I would like to start a discussion about the >set-up of Shogi books in English in general (who knows, I might write one >myself someday :-) ). Even though Tony claims that his book is for Shogi >players of all strengths, I do not think this book is suited for players who >do not even know the rules of the game. I think this book is for players from >10-kyu until 1-dan. Therefore, I think that including the rules of the game >is a waste of space. Actually, "Shogi for Beginners" seems to suffer from the >same wish of wanting to please everybody. I have heard some people complain >that the second part of "Shogi for Beginners" is too difficult for beginners >and I tend to agree. In the same way, it seems to me that if someone who >has never played a Shogi game in his live, will start reading the first >chapters of "The Art of Shogi", put it aside for a couple of months and then >start at the second part of the book. This is prabably alright, but I do not >think many people learn the rules of a new game from a book. I think it is nice to have a book you can grow into. I agree that having the rules in such a book is slightly out of place, but given the amount of information readily available (virtually nil) about Shogi, I can understand it. Now that there are two books that go from rules to more complex aspects, it might now be safe to move on to more specialised books. But you have the same problem with any ambitious project. If you handle any subject from the ground up, you are going to lose audience attention somewhere along the scale. >Again, these points are only meant to make this book even better than it is >now and I sincerely salute Tony for a great effort. It is sad that individual >efforts like this are still the main source of information for those who can >not read Japanese. I am very pleased with TAoS and feel it fills a significant gap in English language shogi-teaching. Of course, I want more. jt >Reijer > >-- > >Reijer Grimbergen >Electrotechnical Laboratory Palcious Tsukuba 302 >1-1-4 Umezono 1-24-8 Ninomiya >Tsukuba-shi, Ibaraki-ken Tsukuba-shi, Ibaraki-ken >305 JAPAN 305 JAPAN >E-mail: grimberg etl go jp Tel: 0298-59-1606 >WWW: http://www.etl.go.jp:8080/etl/suiron/~grimberg >Tel: +81-(0)298-54-5080 extension: 67431 >Fax: +81-(0)298-58-5918 > >