From: Arnoud Kleynjan IXONET NL> Date: 1 feb 1996 Subject: pop Shogi -- [ From: Arnoud Kleynjan * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- (this is my first posting here, hope it works...) (I had promised myself to be quiet for a while, but... ) Allright, here's my 2 cents 1. Style of pieces. When I first played Shogi (at the Shogi club in The Hague, Netherlands), my first reaction to the Japanese pieces was "I don't speak Japanese? I'll never learn that!". ie: Shock! Other players said "No big deal, you *will* learn, sooner than you think, but, no problem, for now we'll play with these westernized pieces." So, I played half a night with the western style pieces, and then switched to the original. Why? I had gotten used to the game (a bit ), and these japanese pieces sure do look more interesting, or real, or whatever. And I think the relaxed attitude of the other players sure helped *not* to scare me away from the game right off. I think there will allways be the original pieces (they already *are* the stauntons of shogi), and I think it's no big deal if somebody wants to learn with other pieces. 2. Hard time learning Shogi because of language. Yes, access to books etc. is a problem. Until I started playing at the compuserve chess forum, and now here, I had almost no-one to play against, *and* no material to study. But it is also about spoken words. The pieces have all gotten local names (pawn, silver general in English, pion, zilver in Dutch, etc.) But most other "words" are not translated, and this does make it harder for me to communicate. I have to remember abstract words that have no meaning for me, sound totaly unfamiliar, and are from a totaly different language. "Do I mean Tjumi, or tjame, or what"? Can't we translate that to "mate studies" or something? Reason for this is I think that most of the people playing Shogi nowadays are interested in Japan as well as in Shogi. They have lived in Japan, or are involved in Martial arts, or just like Japanses food, whatever. Many people I've met who play Shogi, have some kind of link with Japan. Perhaps this makes it easier for them to keep the Japanese "idiom" (is that an english word?), and perhaps that is where the conspiracy theory comes from. (and this is a very personal oppinion, and I'm not at all sure that's it's true, but I think it might be) 3. Why do other people don't want to learn Shogi? I have tried, but have a hard time getting other chess players to play Shogi (other than a short stroll around the block). Why? In the west there is a sort of chess-cult. Chess is the only "real" king of games. Look at the way most people think of variants like 3d-chess, siamese chess, giveaway chess etc. Good for a laugh, but "it's not a serious game, not like chess" Shogi needs to find it's place, not as a chess variant, but as a whole new, different game, a bit like chess, but also different. That's why I would oppose some kind of "chess-tized" or "staunton-ized" pieces: they make Shogi look like an (inferiour) variant of chess. Note: this effect does not occur with the current "westernized" Shogi pieces . That's why I would never vow not to use those, but would rather vow never to use those "staunton-ized" pieces. But in the end, I'll just play anybody who wants to play.... BTW All the talk about wa, tori, etc. isnt't helping either . Most chess players are so used to dissing all other games in favour of chess, that they cannot comprehend the idea of a bunch of different but related games. BUT, ( and I think this is important ) We need to realize, that even if you take away all the reasons *not* to play it (pieces, language of material, "weird-variant-game" status), that still does not give people a reason do want to play it. I could get up right now, and get a drink. But I don't because I don't want a drink right now. Most chess players don't want to play Shogi (seriously) because they don't want to have to learn new openings, new theory, etc. all over again. So, the only thing we can do, is have Shogi "availeble" for young people. And then perhaps more and more of them will decide to concentrate on Shogi next to or in stead of Chess. >>Decades? No, ages! Well, it's gotten a bit long, but there it is.... Have fun, Arnoud Kleynjan