From: Reijer Grimbergen ETL GO JP> Date: 17 apr 1996 Subject: Re: Shogi Rules Hi all, It is interesting how things quickly get out of hand, don't they ;-). I think George's (Fernandez) post pretty much covers the issue properly and is useful for everyday play. However, I do not agree with his statement that the booklet by Horiguchi is "the official rule book accepted by the Japanese Shogi Association". It is far from complete and can not be compared to the official rules of chess by the FIDE. With all respect, it seems to me a halfhearted try to mimic western behaviour. The Japanese do not feel it necessary to put accepted rules on paper. There is no discussion about the answer to the original question that started this discussion and the Japanese then say: "OK, no problem". But we are different, aren't we ;-). The reason I entered the discussion was not to debate the rules, but to discuss the inconsistency I see in making a mate with a pawn drop illegal. My interest was in the historic significance of this strange rule, but it seems that my argument for this rule to be inconsistent clouded the issue of the rules. Furthermore, it seems that nobody knows the logic behind making a pawn drop mate illegal. This is a pity, because I really would like to know. To me this rule is a small blemish on a perfect game and I would sleep better if I would know there is a logical explanation ;-). To Jonathan I want to say: I am afraid that you will have to live with the fact that Shogi has no explicit rules like chess. In the Japanese mind a "everybody agrees on that" is enough to stop all discussion :-). Finally, on the other George's (Jost) question (please don't call me Reiger again ;-) ): if you think that having first move is an advantage (which is a reasonable assumption) and this advantage is in principal winning (if both players play a perfect game) then the game should end with the smallest possible difference which is (tadaaa!) mating with a pawn drop. This is the reasoning behind Habu's statement. There are a lot of assumptions behind this reasoning and it could be considered more like a belief than a logical proposition, so everybody can have its own thoughts about it... Sorry, could not help myself entering the discussion again... Reijer -- Reijer Grimbergen Electrotechnical Laboratory Palcious Tsukuba 302 1-1-4 Umezono 1-24-8 Ninomiya Tsukuba-shi, Ibaraki-ken Tsukuba-shi, Ibaraki-ken 305 JAPAN 305 JAPAN E-mail: grimberg etl go jp Tel: 0298-59-1606 WWW: http://www.etl.go.jp:8080/etl/suiron/~grimberg Tel: +81-(0)298-54-5080 extension: 67431 Fax: +81-(0)298-58-5918